TBH and in all fairness I feel similarly regarding 'Finger Man' Vettel.

If you feel that way about Vettel, I'll allow it. Never liked him all that much when he was at Red Bull, but he's doing his job for Ferrari. He's winning points so I can't complain. Kimi isn't in the points so somebody has to.

It's hard being a Ferrari fan lately. Raikkonen and Verstappen are my guys...I just wish Kimi would get it together. Hopefully, Verstappen will make a move to Ferrari by 2017. Bottas would've been a good snag too but Williams sayeth he stayeth.

On a side note, I'm really excited to see what Haas F1 can do in the future.

How about... Apple? I am not sure how it works in the Western countries, but in Russia people buy Apple stuff just b/c of brand loyalty.

Its the same here in the US trendy more than anything. What really gets me is their adds they ran "engineered in America" but of course they don't say its made in China for a substantial amount less than the price tag. Of course that last part is true for any smartphone.

100% agree with this. Apple is evil, IMHO.

No more so than Microsoft or Samsung.

Oh yeah it is. Apple is more than just evil capitalists, they're also a cult. Walk into any Apple store and you'll see what I mean. :)

I'd say Microsoft is the greater evil. At least whatever Apple does can't effect me as long as I don't want to buy any of their products. As for Apple being overrated, I can't really tell as I haven't used anything that they made extensively, though they did have a few noteworthy innovations in the past.

Jaguar or BMW, Ford or Chevy, Datsun or Toyota. ......

Of course, wannabes drive the BMW's.

Now this is the one that i'll dispute. Ford invented the assembly line that revolutionized production of everything...Chevy, as much as I hate them, is (at least to my knowledge) the best at simple, cheap, and effective crate engines (LS). Toyota has made some of the most reliable cars on the market. There are people still driving around 1990 Camrys and having no problems at half a million miles. Jaguar and Datsun I have no personal experience with but they are respected in the automotive world for their accomplishments.

And BMW.....BMW? Overrated? Maybe only on the cultural "bandwagon" side of things. At one point they were the best in the world at making engines. Their naturally aspirated inline-6 from the 80's and 90's was beyond excellent. Their cars are also running for a long time given proper care and they develop some of the best performance cars in their respective classes to come out of Europe. I don't know how you can say that cars like the 3.0CSL, 2002, E30 3-series (and M3), and M1 were overrated.

Not to mention the other innovations that have come from various events related to these automakers...

If any in the automotive world were to be overrated, I'd have to say Lamborghini, Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, Bugatti, etc...all the "bandwagon" cars that people with no knowledge of cars latch onto as the best in the world. If I had a nickel for every time somebody said that Lamborghini and Bugatti made the best cars on earth i'd be rich and wouldn't need scholarships to go to engineering school.

Just my $0.02

This.

Apple is not evil. Apple is just a company that became lasy becasue they have a fan base that will buy everything served. A commercial momentum as one might say.
They were good, they got a following, they no longer needed to be good.

Which makes them overrated.

I have not once in my life ever heard a person say that Lambrogini or Bugatti made the best cars on earth. BMW is OK yes but as was said on Top Gear douches drive them. Any maker has "bandwagon" fans so you can't justly single out one maker in thus respect.

Most underrated maker Volvo you can thank many safety features because of Volvo. The three point seat belt was invented by Volvo and they gave the rights away free of charge so every car maker could also have three point seat belts.

In the automobile industry competition is a wonderful thing so hard core fans are a good thing because it means more competition. Example the Ford Mustang without it there would be no Comaro.

Just because I am just that kind of pompous annoying type of guy...

The assembly line was used long before Ford.

Firearm manufacturer Honoré LeBlanc (some French guy) first made the concept of an assembly line (interchangeable parts) practical in the late 1700's. About the same time English Naval engineer Samuel Bentham, used LeBlanc's idea and adopted it for the assembly of ship blocks. There was also a clothing manufacturer called North that used an assembly line concept in England. And there were others. Rarely in history does one person "invent" something solely on his or her own. t was actually Thomas Jefferson (as SecState) who brought the assembly idea back to the US.

US History being what it is, naturally an American (Whitney) (cue music) "Invented" the idea of using interchangeable parts and used them in an assembly line.

Ok ok ok, But Ford was the first to use an assembly line for manufacturing cars.

Well, Ransom Olds patented the automobile assembly line in 1901.

But Ford was the one that invented the concept of a moving assembly line where the workers stayed in one place and the product moved..... Except that as early as the 1100's , the Venetian Arsenal produced ships by moving them down a canal where they were fitted with new parts at each stop.

Ok, so what did Ford invent?

First of all, Ford learned a lot from his association with Thomas Edison -- Take credit for the work of your employees. What Ford brought to the assembly line was the concept of the Conveyor System, where the product and its components were transported to the right location, in the right order, at the right time to the point of individual assembly.

And let's not downplay this. This was a significant improvement in the long established practice of assembly lines.

So Ford did not invent the assembly line, he just improved it greatly.

It is not surprising that history books written by American's tend to elevate the participation of American's. I am sure that this applies to many countries' history books. :D I have read some Russian history books that made me shake my head ruefully at times.

Yeah, it is not surprising that I don't get invited to too many parties. :)

Battleships Bismarck and Tirpitz. What a waste of resources and manpower. Bismarck was a one hit wonder and didn't complete a full sortie. ...and Tirpitz? German Navy's winner of hide and seek, well just the hide part. They are both like big, mean rotweilers. Bismarck got out once, bit the mailman, then got run over by a truck 5 minutes later. The Tipitz is the dog, chained up in the back yard that barks non-stop.

Maybe it's a Raeder thing?

One of my ex's is German and she used to laugh at people who thought highly of themselves because they owned a BMW. According to her, BMW is often derided in Germany as the "Bayrischer Mist Wagen", or, in English, "Bavarian Manure Wagon (Car)"...


<O>

How would they have performed in a proper fleet as opposed to the inadequate one they where part of? I would argure that the strategy of the Kriegsmarine was to blame not the ships themselves.

Taylor Swift is overrated. Went to her concert in GSO not long ago with son and friends....sounded to me like a dog was dying on stage, not singing.. Ain't no Dolly fer sure

I don't disagree with you. I thought about going the whole German surface fleet (except the pocket BBs and merchant raiders, but ultimately all fingers point back to Hitler, but I didn't want to go that route.

I'm not saying the Bismarck and Tirpitz are bad ships, so to speak. I just thought of this, they remind me of a top rated college football player, that makes it to the pros and gets hurt (career ending) on the first play of the game.
I forget, was it Hitler or Raeder that wanted the big, massive battleships? Maybe if they followed the original Z plan timeline, they would have been more successful?:hmmm: I picked the ships for the fear factor they instilled vs what they actually delivered.

You must not have be around too many non-car people between the ages of 15-25 too often. I hear that all the time and I'm constantly arguing about it. I hear it a lot at the parts store that I frequent.

Volvo. :yeah: :sunny:

I disagree. The Mustang came first and started the whole "affordable sports car" thing. The Mustang came first and for several years there wasn't even a Camaro until the fifth gen. Mustangs soldiered on and remained popular regardless of whether the camaro was competing or not. Sure, the Camaro vs. Mustang debate is a huge deal in the muscle world. Yes, it's competition keeps the cars alive, but Chevy hasn't the same dedication to the Camaro as Ford has to the Mustang I feel.

The Mustang set the standard and then the Camaro has been trying to meet or exceed it for years.

Well, I simply was not aware of that fact. I was always told that Ford was the first mass production assembly line. I never looked into it enough to know any different, but now I know.

Learn something every day.

The Camaro came out in 1967 so I have no idea what you mean by that statement. A generation is a notable change in the design of a model. Mustag first gen was 1964 1\2 to 1973 the 5th gen Mustang is 2005 to 2015. The Camaro was introduced during the 3rd production year of the Mustang.

Mustang in that time had Shelby Camaro (and other Chevies) had Yenko. I'll bet until reading this you haven't heard of Yenko.


The Pontiac GTO 64,65,66,67 looks 1000% better than either the Mustang or the Camaro. As well the 1964 GTO which until 1966 was a package of the Tempest was the first true affordable sports/muscle car and a stock 64 GTO would murder a stock 64 Mustang. The same man who destined the Delorean thought up and designed the GTO. Of course MOPAR was arguable the first to produce a purpose built high performance engine when they started experimenting with thee HEMI in the 1950's.


You don't know very much about Trans Am racing that much is clear as well.

All you have shown is that you are a fan boy of certain makes yet think that people who are fan boys of the competition are wrong.

People who actually own a Bugatti I find it very doubtful shop at Advance Autoparts.

I'm a car(and machine) person but I find the complete history of cars interesting. So I find a 1967 Shelby GT 350 as interesting as a 1970 Freightliner Dual Drive cabover. I enjoy the history and the technology.