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-   -   Only known surviving Dornier 17 to be raised from the English Channel (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=204132)

Jimbuna 05-03-13 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 2050725)
Jim,

Was the plane left in this condition?

Yes, that is her on display.

AVGWarhawk 05-03-13 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2050959)
Yes, that is her on display.

Why was it displayed in this fashion?

Oberon 05-03-13 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 2051051)
Why was it displayed in this fashion?

From the museums expanded history of the aircraft:

Quote:

It was later decided that due to the effort and expense required, a full restoration would not be attempted and that the aircraft would be displayed unrestored as a tribute to bomber crews of World War 2.
As the aircraft had lain in a fresh water lake, although fabric had rotted from the control surfaces, cabin transparencies had distorted and magnesium alloy parts had corroded, the duralumin structure was in good condition, with little rust.


Hottentot 05-04-13 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 2050885)
-Restored by the definition is the original state the item was manufactured.

The professional conservators I have worked with have a different definition. I'm going by that.

Quote:

Anything else is a modification.
Another term which I haven't heard being used in the museum context. An item can be restored or conserved. From Oberon's posts it seems they are going to conserve this one. I'm happy with that, but not against restoring either, as long as the object's identity is not removed.

Quote:

the aircraft I have seen fly were basket cases at one time.
And since there have been no plans of making this plane fly again, the comparison doesn't work.

Quote:

The first P-40 I watch fly was found covered in tar and on a pole over a bar in Arizona. Restored to it former glory. Should we have left it on the pole so it could tell it's story?
Depends on how it got on the pole and covered in tar.

HunterICX 05-04-13 03:51 AM

To me a museum piece that shows the scars of war/battle moves me more and tells me more about its history then when it would be fully restored to the state it was in when it rolled out of the factory.

a nice example is the World War 1 tank Mk.IV Deborah they found in France.
It was shot in world war 1 ditched by Russian PoW's into a hole and left there for 90 years untill someone found it, dug it up and put it on display in the same state they've found it in.
http://www.1rtr.net/historical/Deborah_51.jpg

HunterICX

JU_88 05-04-13 06:16 AM

OT -Nice sig Hunter, I use my old Alpha 2 favorites in SSF4 - Guy and Sakura, but i only ever do ok online with Guy, always seem to get hammered when i use sakura. :O:

MH 05-04-13 06:21 AM

In my opinion they should restore the plane.
It is pointless to keep it in air museum as a rusting wreckage.
Better yet make it flying again.

Oberon 05-04-13 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH (Post 2051168)
Better yet make it flying again.

And if it crashes and burns?

It's the only known relatively intact Do-17 in the world at this time.

MH 05-04-13 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 2051174)
And if it crashes and burns?

It's the only known relatively intact Do-17 in the world at this time.

You have point here.:salute:
Make it flyable then.

JU_88 05-04-13 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH (Post 2051168)
Better yet make it flying again.

Given that its airframe will already be severely damaged from its war time impact, plus the effects of corrosion from being in salt water for 70 odd years, I really dont think that is ever going to be possible.
There is still a good chance that it might disintergrate as they try to recover it.

If they wanted a flying DO17, it would probably make alot more sense to build a replica, I dont think there are any flight worthy WW2 Luftwaffe bombers left, the last one was a Spanish built Heinkel 111 and it crashed on its way to Montana Airfest in 2003 - tragically taking the lives of both its pilots. :(

MH 05-04-13 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88 (Post 2051192)
Given that its airframe will already be severely damaged from its war time impact, plus the effects of corrosion from being in salt water for 70 odd years, I really dont think that is ever going to be possible.
There is still a good chance that it might disintergrate as they try to recover it.

Many ww2 planes had been restored to flying condition from rusty wreckages.
Not saying that it must be possible in this case but if it can be done then it seems to me like better option than just keeping ton of rusting metal on display.
Restoring it externally is cool with me too in particular as a last and only DO-17.

Jimbuna 05-04-13 11:35 AM

Being as it's the only one I'd like to see her restored and displayed as a static museum piece.

Oberon 05-04-13 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2051279)
Being as it's the only one I'd like to see her restored and displayed as a static museum piece.

I'm happy with the old girl just being conserved and then preserved the best they can, the time she's spent down there is going to have taken its toll, and they'll be lucky if she comes up in one piece.

It's like the Mary Rose, if you want to see the thing as it was when she rolled out of Dorniers factories then build a replica. This is a piece of history, let's not screw around with it, especially given how valuable she is.

Jimbuna 05-04-13 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 2051295)
I'm happy with the old girl just being conserved and then preserved the best they can, the time she's spent down there is going to have taken its toll, and they'll be lucky if she comes up in one piece.

It's like the Mary Rose, if you want to see the thing as it was when she rolled out of Dorniers factories then build a replica. This is a piece of history, let's not screw around with it, especially given how valuable she is.

I'll wait and see what she looks like when she breaks the surface...and I pray she won't disintegrate inside the cradle :huh:

AVGWarhawk 05-04-13 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 2051295)
I'm happy with the old girl just being conserved and then preserved the best they can, the time she's spent down there is going to have taken its toll, and they'll be lucky if she comes up in one piece.

It's like the Mary Rose, if you want to see the thing as it was when she rolled out of Dorniers factories then build a replica. This is a piece of history, let's not screw around with it, especially given how valuable she is.

Valuable in what respect?

August 05-04-13 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 2051527)
Valuable in what respect?


Isn't it the only known one left in existence?

MH 05-04-13 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2051564)
Isn't it the only known one left in existence?

That is exactly the reason it should be restored.
70 years old wreckage is just a wreckage of historical aircraft.

Oberon 05-05-13 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH (Post 2051567)
That is exactly the reason it should be restored.
70 years old wreckage is just a wreckage of historical aircraft.

I think you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I'd rather the old girl be conserved than rebuilt. Personally I think that if people want to see a full on working Do-17 then someone should build a replica. This is a piece of history, much as in the same way that you wouldn't rebuild a castle or Stonehenge. It's valuable as being the only Dornier 17 in existence, and hopefully (providing the recovery is successful) the only relatively intact Do-17 in existence. You can't mess around with that.
Sure, I'd love to see a Do-17 like it rolled out of the factory, it'd look great next to the He-111 and Ju-88 that the museum already has, but I'd rather that it'd be a replica than 5K+AR, and who knows, perhaps if the RAF Museum can raise the money, they will get one made. That would be nice.
Still, we'll see what condition she comes up in, I think she's going to be in much worse shape than the likes of Glacier Girl, Kee bird or the like.
However, she could be in such good condition that the RAF Museum will decide in the future to rebuild her, in which case I will support the decision, because ultimately it's up to them, if they want to conserve her like the Halifax or rebuild her, then it's their decision and I'll stand by it, however given the financial climate, I'd wager that they will focus on conservation to begin with and then consider whether or not to opt for a full rebuild.

Jimbuna 05-05-13 06:20 AM

^ Pretty much how I see it because ultimately every decision will be tied to financial considerations.

JU_88 05-05-13 09:35 AM

True that budgets are tight, so if they do restore, lets pray they dont cut corners to end up with something about as accurate as this shocking example of a JU-88A replica. I might understand if this was on display in China, but its actually from a German museum. :o A low budget can be the only reason I can think of for its awful appearance.

http://sinsheim.technik-museum.de/ga...serialNumber=2


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