Same here, it seems there are many more ppl are hoping for first playable (plus new detailed model) type IX so fingers crossed and hoping all goes well with your project Targor :up:

Thank you for the support, guys.

I probably should start a thread on this project, as it seems I keep stealing space in other threads (i.e. here, gr2 thread, etc).

Just a note: not playable yet (working on AI unit) and not new detailed model (that is WAAAAYYY OUT to go, I just purchased VERY DETAILED plans for U-505, so will be able to start working on that, but still a very long time).

So, keep this thread on topic, as this community project is, in my opinion, is a try-out for this community to start looking at making a mega-mod in a year or two.

type 2 u boat
 

Would there be a chance of getting tomi's type 2 u boat from sh4 with all the interior to work on sh5 that would be fantastic aswell really looking forward to a type 9 though will you be doing the inside aswell or using the type7 interior ? :D

guys, as I just said - let's not derail this thread, as I believe it is a very good thread.
I'll start a new thread tomorrow and will keep it updated and answer all the questions

Hi guys, sorry for keeping silent in the last days.

Against my promises, yesterday I didn't get time to finish my spreadsheet, but I worked on it mentally and I have come to rethink some features which will increase the information it will be able to process, by keeping its compiling as easy and fast as possible.

My ideas, if you accept them, are relative to the first and the last flag in the "magic number" that I have discussed the day before yesterday:

2/001/026/00/007/3/1

The first "flag", let's call it "doctrine" will still dictate the probability of an U-boat being considered to be dispatched for supporting our attack (if this first test is passed, TDW's patch should check if the unit got enough torpedoes and fuel by comparing 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th number). I added a new level though:

0 - unit unavailable;
1 - low dispatching chance, only if it the sub is at close range from our current position;
2 - medium chance, close range;
3 - medium chance, long range;
4 - high chance, medium range.

What changes is the way my calculator will generate the above numbers for each date/position, without need by you to set them arbitrarily (see below). As for the last flag, the purple one, I have decided to make it into a referece for generating U-boat to BdU and BdU to U-boat reports. This is the list of the possible messages that have come to my mind:

0 - none
1 - B.dU: U-boat outbound
2 - Proceeding to operation area
3 - Report current patrol area
4 - Joining wolfpack
5 - Leaving wolfpack
6 - Mission accomplished, resuming normal patrol
7 - Mission aborted, resuming normal patrol
8 - Report single contact detected
9 - Report convoy detected
10 - Report successful attack
11 - Report unsuccessful attack
12 - Warships/taskforce detected – maintaining radio silence
13 - Aircraft sighted – maintaining radio silence
14 - Survived warship attack, continuing patrol
15 - Survived air attack, continuing patrol
16 - Survived combined attack, continuing patrol
17 - B.d.U: U-boat missing in action
18 - Proceeding to main route
19 - Ending patrol/returning to base
20 - B.d.U: order to head for base
21 - Malfunctioning: heading base for repairs
22 - Suffered damage by warship attack: heading to base for repairs
23 - Suffered damage by air attack: heading to base for repairs
24 - Suffered damage by combined attack: heading to base for repairs
25 - B.d.U: U-boat inbound

Besides increasing immersion, the above messages, played with a random chance (possibly affected by the doctrine flag), would give us precious information on the current position and state of our possible helpers. Again, you won't need to set the above flags manually. All you need to set for each date is a 'current activity' cell. The possible tags selectable through a drop-down menu that I thought of so far, are:

1. Sailing to patrol area: this is meant as start of "normal" tonnage patrols; you should set this tag from when the boat leaved her base to when she started her actual patrol.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 3
   Corresponding message: IF current cell IS first day of patrol: 1 ELSE: 0
   
   
2. Sailing to/from operation area: as above, but used for when the boat had to carry out special duties which required stealth and/or a timely accomplishment/coordination with other units, or more in general when the boat was sailing under strict B.d.U. orders. Unlike the previous tag, it doesn't necessarily need to be set from when the boat had left her base: an U-boat could have start a normal patrol and then, while still at sea, headed to operation area for accomplishing her special duties. As the name suggests, it can also be used for when an U-boat had to move from her special operation area to a "safer" location. NOTE: short special missions, starting and ending at base, can start with a 'sailing to/from operation area' tag, but they shoul end with one of the 'bound to base'.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 1
   Corresponding message: IF current cell IS first day of patrol: 1 ELSE IF previous cell IS 'carrying out special ops' OR 'mission aborted': 18 ELSE IF previous cell IS NOT 'sailing to/from operation area': 2 ELSE: 0
   
   
3. Normal patrol: this is the default U-boat activity (if no tag is set, this one will be used), used for tonnage patrols, and it should normally follow the 'sailing to patrol area' tag. Setting the moment that an U-boat ended its passage to patrol area and actually started its patrol might be a bit arbitrary. You can use as reference the moment that the given boat started circling in enemy waters, or that the distance between consecutive position logs became comparatively shorter.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 3
   Corresponding message: IF previous cell IS NOT 'normal patrol': 3 ELSE: 0
   
   
4. War patrol (strict orders): this is similar to the previous tag, but it applies to when the boat had to track down/hunt a specific target (esp. military units), when it sneaked into enemy ports (eg Prien's attack at Scapa Flow) or when a precise order of battles was involved (eg Operation Weserubung). Wol fpack operations not included. It normally , but not necessarily follows the 'sailing to/from operation area'tag
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 4
   Corresponding message: IF previous cell IS NOT 'war patrol (strict orders)': 3 ELSE: 0
   
   
5. Wolf pack hunting: quite self-explanatory. Set it from when the boat joined an historical wolf pack to when it left it.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 4
   Corresponding message: IF previous cell is IS 'sailing to patrol area' OR 'sailing to/from operation area' OR 'normal patrol' OR 'carrying out special ops': 4 ELSE IF next cell IS 'normal patrol' OR 'war patrol (strict orders)' OR 'sailing to/from operation area' OR 'carrying out special ops' OR 'bound to base': 5 ELSE: 0
   
   
6. Carrying out special ops: any type of special operation which didn't involve hunting enemy ships: mine laying, escorting friendly units, reckoning missions, spy dropping, equipment transports, short transfers from base to base, etc. Weather reporting duties and refits at sea not included (you should tag them as 'normal patrol'instead).
   
   Corresponding doctrine: 0
   Corresponding message: IF next cell IS 'sailing to/from operation area': 6 ELSE: 0
   
   
7. Mission aborted: set this tag at the end of a 'carrying out special ops'set of cells, if you know that for some reason the mission had to be aborted.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 1
   Corresponding message: 7
   
   
8. Shadowing single unit: set this tag if you know that on that day an U-boat had reported a single contact or, arbitrarily, one day before the date a ship was historically attacked by the given U-boat.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 2
   Corresponding message: 8
   
   
9. Shadowing convoy: same as above, for convoys.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 2
   Corresponding message: 9
   
   
10. Attacking contact: set this tag for historical U-boat attacks on enemy ships, whether successful or not.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 1
    Corresponding message: IF sunk/damaged ships > 0: 10 ELSE: 11
    
    
11. Avoiding enemy warships: tag used for when an U-boat, undetected, spotted enemy ASW patrols or task forces, having to avoid their surveillance. Not applied to convoy escorts.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF previous cell IS NOT 'avoiding enemy warships': 12 ELSE: 0
    
    
12. Avoiding enemy planes: same as above, but for airplanes.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF previous cell IS NOT 'avoiding enemy planes': 13 ELSE: 0
    
    
13. Facing warship attack: same as 'avoiding enemy warships', but the U-boat was detected and had to adopt evasive maneuvers.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF next cell IS NOT 'facing warship attack' NOR 'facing air attack' NOR 'facing combined attack' NOR 'bound to base for repairs' NOR 'U-boat destroyed': 14 ELSE: 0
    
    
14. Facing air attack: same as above, but for airplanes.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF next cell IS NOT 'facing warship attack' NOR 'facing air attack' NOR 'facing combined attack' NOR 'bound to base for repairs' NOR 'U-boat destroyed': 15 ELSE: 0
    
    
15. Facing combined attack: same as above, but the U-boat was attacked by both warships and airplanes.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF next cell IS NOT 'facing warship attack' NOR 'facing air attack' NOR 'facing combined attack' NOR 'bound to base for repairs' NOR 'U-boat destroyed': 16 ELSE: 0
    
    
16. U-boat destroyed: self explanatory
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: 17
    
    
17. Bound to base: set this tag from when the boat started her return passage to when it entered port. See my comments about the 'normal patrol'tag, on how to estimate when this tag should start.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 3
    Corresponding message: IF current cell IS last day of patrol: 25 ELSE IF previous cell IS NOT 'bound to base' NOR 'bound to base by BdU order' NOR 'bound to base for repairs': 19 ELSE:0
    
    
18. Bound to base by BdU order: similar to the previous tag, but the U-boat is ordered by B.d.U. to return urgently to base .
    
    Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 1
    Corresponding message: IF current cell IS last day of patrol: 25 ELSE IF previous cell IS NOT 'bound to base' NOR 'bound to base by BdU order' NOR 'bound to base for repairs': 20 ELSE:0
    
    
19. Bound to base for repairs: similar to the previous tag, but the boat had to anticipate her return to base, due to technical problems or to damage suffered during an enemy attack.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF previous cell IS NOT 'bound to base' NOR 'bound to base by BdU order' NOR 'bound to base for repairs' NOR 'facing warship attack' NOR 'facing air attack' NOR 'facing combined attack': 21 ELSE IF previous cell IS 'facing warship attack': 22 ELSE IF previous cell IS 'facing air attack': 23 ELSE IF previous cell IS 'facing combined attack': 24 ELSE IF current cell IS last day of patrol: 25 ELSE:0

As you can see from my pseudo code, all the tags/flag system is context sensitive, so to allow the maximum information with as few inputs as possible. After entering the required data, the spreadsheet will generate automatically some rows that you will copy/paste into keysersoze's google document file.

Lastly, I have implemented a cool feature for showing historical U-boat's routes on the SH5 map, and marking selected points on it. Useful for checking the correctness of the coordinates reported by uboat.net, and for better understanding what was going on during each patrol. :sunny:

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1001/routea.jpg

Any suggestion? :)

Very nice! No real suggestions, beside, maybe, when we actually get to it, splitting uboat ranges between people working, so there would not be an overlap.

Sorry for the late response; I've been traveling today.

This is what I think of your ideas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih6XjO_fhrI

:O:

This looks brilliant gap :yeah: I don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but this level of detail, if it can be patched into the game, could revolutionize SH5 by providing a truly dynamic BdU/U-boat relationship.

How do you think we should split up the work? I like the idea of dividing it by U-boat type, but we would not have data on the Hundius flotilla if we only did the Type VII boats in the beginning. The Hundius Type IXs made up a large portion of the U-boat arm in the early war, especially since there were so few boats in total, and they were very involved in early wolfpack operations in the Western Approaches and off Gibraltar. Any ideas?

First version of the U-boat coordinates generator available here:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7__...it?usp=sharing

I have added tooltip notes to most of the editable settings; moreover, by way of example, the spreadsheet comes with the data taken from U-30's 3rd war patrol. In order to make the spreadsheet more user friendly, I have used the following color code:

light blue/purple cells: labels
white cells: user input
light purple cells: informative cells
ocre cells: output

There are still some functions and some data entries that I want to add to it, but before we actually start working on the final "TDW-readable" U-boat logs, I think you can start playing with my spreadsheet, in order to familiarize with it and to report any mistake by me or feature that could be improved. :yep:

I agree, implementing our idea would add a whole new dimension to the game.

At the time being I am trying to make my U-boat logs generating spreadsheet to process as much information as it can be recorded in a compact format. Nonetheless, the fact that I thought of some features, or that some information is recorded in the generated logs, doesn't necessarily mean that TDW will be able to use all of it. Before we start with the data collection work, we should wait for his opinion on what can and what cannot be done. An example? A cool feature would be if TDW's code could read two consecutive position logs, and plot an intermediate position based on current time. In this way we would simulate submarines moving between two points, instead of jumping from one point to the next one. Nonetheless, this feature could cause TDW to spawn subs on land, if the two points are too close to land masses. In order to avoid it, I have added an user settable flag which would tell TDW's code not to interpolate among two given points. This flag will be absolutely useless, unless TDW can code the intermediate coordinates plotting feature...

I think by the time we have finished collecting information on type VII U-boat, Targor will get his type IX finished, and we will start working on type IX's logs. :03:

Good remark guys!

I also agree that we need for a coordinator. My personal vote goes to keysersoze :up:

strongly support! :yeah:

Fantastic work gap :salute: You have done an excellent job combining functionality and simplicity. Hopefully that will attract more people to the project. I'll start experimenting with your coordinates generator tomorrow and will let you know if I think of any suggestions.

Another feature to ask TDW about is the possibility of having AI U-boats report a convoy if they are in close proximity. This might be tricky to code, but it would represent the true implementation of dynamic wolfpacks, where either the player or the AI could be the contact-keeper.

Very true—we will have our hands full with the Type VIIs.

Thanks for the votes of confidence guys. I would be honored to coordinate, although I think we should defer to gap as well, since this project was originally his idea.

:up:

Excellent idea!

you deserved it :)

I am already busy with too many projects, Daniel. Moreover, starting from the next week I have a schedule of several short trips abroad which will reduce my free time. I will be glad to contribute to this project with suggestions, data collection and by further improving the log generating spreadsheet if required, but in my opinion you are still the best candidate for group coordination :yep:

Understood. You have your hand in many things; I would be happy to coordinate day-to-day operations. After class today, I will play around with the spreadsheet and think about the best way to divide up the workload. As mentioned before, I'm inclined to favor a realistic and easily-achievable goal for the first portion of data collecting. Perhaps beginning with only the Type VIIAs would be appropriate. There were only ten of them, so each volunteer could focus on one or two U-boats.

Two questions:
1. How should we deal with rebasing missions? Should we record them for the sake of completeness? Should they be considered separate patrols?

2. Do you guys think it would be appropriate to start a new thread for the coordinates project? This thread was a general inquiry about the possibility of community projects. A new thread would allow us to clearly and concisely present this project, offer instructions and hints, and hopefully attract more volunteers. That way, subsimmers wouldn't have to read through 4 pages of posts to familiarize themselves with our ideas.

(more to come in a few hours)

gute jagd on your patrols abroad, Herr Kaleun, and don't forget to send weather reports from time to time. :salute: :O:

:yeah:

My only concern is that on the way we might change idea on some of the numerical parameters I have included in the generated logs, and that we would be forced to restart (almost) from zero. So yes, I agree that the best approach is to start with a limited number of U-boats, and wait for TDW to start working on them. :yep:

U-boats from U-27 to U-32 are almost ready yet; if you explain me how to access your google document, I will start updating it with them. :03:
Other volunteers could focus on the remaining Type VIIA and on the VIIB. What do you think?

I think so: provided that we are talking about front line boats, each passage from base to base should be considered as a separate patrol, even though it was just a short transfer, or an aborted patrol. By setting the daily tags appropriately, we can make these U-boat not as aggressive or responsive as during "normal patrols".

Yes, either start a new thread or ask a moderator to change the title of this thread. A while ago the moderator dealing with this kind of stuff was CCIP, if I remember correctly.

Next patrol will be past the Bosphorus :arrgh!:

Okay, I will try to figure out a manageable workload tonight and will create a new thread.

I see you have been productive :up: I accidentally had the document set to "View Only." I changed the status so that anyone with the link can edit it. Let me know if you still cannot access it.

:up:

Operating with 30. U-Flottille, I see. The Soviets will never see you coming :Kaleun_Los:

We can and we will see everything and everybody :cool:

(Big Brother.. and so on) :D

I have no doubt that the excellent Soviet intelligence will see gap coming, but will Stalin believe it? He didn't do very well in June 1941....:O:

I won't travel that much past Boshorus to pay a visit to Stalin and to my good friend Volodya ;)

:huh:

believe it or not, I come in peace, let's not start a second cold war :haha:

you forgot an evil laugh

/mwahahahahahaha

@keysersoze:
Well, let's assign ranges and go! :)

Maybe there were some reasons for.. who knows.. :06:

Well, you are right.. let's not start new war :up:.. :)

My bad.. I forgot it.. :oops:

:rotfl2: