SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - would you go through with the procedure?

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Sky, again you look at someone else the way many of us look at you, hence my pot/kettle reference earlier.

Allow me to speak for myself. Most of the people who know me know that I almost never assume that I'm right, unless it's a technical discussion and I can point to actual facts. When I try to explain that to you, you dismiss it and go on with your assumption that I'm like you. I'm not.

My problem with you has never been on points of argument. If you had discussed your points with me in a civilized manner you might have come to realize that I agree with you up to a point. But you couldn't do that. You have a bad habit of assuming you know better than whoever you're talking to and lecturing them as if they were students who came to you for your wisdom and knowledge. We are not students, and you don't come across as all that wise or knowledgeable. Maybe you are. I'm just saying that you don't present yourself that way.

You might want to retort that it's not your job to please people or to be liked. Unfortunately in an open forum that is exactly what you must do if you want people to treat you in a similar manner. You've just done it again with Buddahaid in the 'Benghazi' thread. Maybe you're right in your thinking, but it never seems to occur to you that you might be wrong, or that he might actually have a point worth considering. Sure you disagree. Sure you're convinced you're right. That said, calling his ideas "idiotic logic" immediately places you in the "haughty" and "self-righteous" category you assign to Takeda. That you don't see that just makes it worse. People, myself included, have called you "arrogant" in the past. You may or may not be, but that's the way many of us see you. You need to remember that we are not your students and you are not here to teach us. We are all equals here, and we are all here to discuss things. Argue, yes, but not from the point that you are our superior. You're not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen (Post 1952531)

Your failure was your poor argument technique. Your reliance on fallacy to make your argument is what did you in. Even when you have a good point, your poor understanding of discourse negates that point. I would suggest reading up on argumentative technique. It will do you a lot of good.

Take, for example, your comparison of me to that senator. I never said or implied anything of the sort, and yet you wished to frame me as the senator. That's a classical strawman. Some light reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

You've done it several times over our discourse as well. It, in fact, is one of your favorite techniques. Unfortunately, it is a dishonest technique. Take what I said about what I said about what I percieved to be your view on trauma by contrast. I said that it was my impression. I never claimed full knowledge. Therein lies the difference.

I've seen too many students with your attitude, Skybird. You are so convinced that you know everything that you are unable to see the your own error, or try to put yourself in the other's shoes. It does make me sad, and I speak in kindness to you when I say that I wish there was more that I could do for you. You have so much potential as a human being and as an intellectual, but it is squandered by your stated attitude. That makes me sad, it really does.

And now the haughtiness climbs right for orbit. Bye bye, have a good flight. I allowed to get deceived once, won't happen again. I now see you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1952550)

You might want to retort that it's not your job to please people or to be liked. Unfortunately in an open forum that is exactly what you must do if you want people to treat you in a similar manner.

Once again, Steve proves himself to be a better and wiser man than I. If I give you my notes, will you write them up as prose and let me read them to my students? They will think I am brilliant. :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Bye bye, have a good flight.

Then mean it this time. I had said my piece and left back on page two. The next day, I find you talking about me, thus pulling me back in to defend myself, exactly like you did to Steve in another thread. We have another expression here in the 'States: Best let sleeping dogs lie. It's good to take it to heart.

Quote:

Your reliance on fallacy to make your argument is what did you in.

Its a common habit, taking a decent point he may have to make and simply messing it all up by the most ridiculous lies.

Quote:

And now the haughtiness climbs right for orbit. Bye bye, have a good flight. I allowed to get deceived once, won't happen again. I now see you.

:har::har::har::har::har::har::har:
Has the habitual got himself in a super strop?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garion (Post 1952429)

It's one thing to erase the memory in an individual....but...

What about their friends and relatives that know what happened to them?

Do they walk around on eggshells trying not to let slip any details of the event that was erased?

Do they erase from the patients memory the ..erm.. memory that they had a procedure that removed a memory?

What if the patient comes across a picture of the themselves linked to a report of the traumatic event in a newspaper or other media?

I voted no, because the human brain is very adaptive and removing the memory does not stop the patient using reason to work out what happened.

Cheers

Gary

If it is something extremely seriously like rape or worse, the experience SB related, I'll argue it will still probably be worth it to remove the memory.

To avoid problems, the patient will probably have be told what he had chosen to forget soon after the operation. But knowing you were raped on an intellectual level, while unpleasant, beats having visceral memories of it to high heaven.

It'll be even more useful for soldiers. For example, Soldier A might have killed 4 enemies, a "glorious victory". If only he can forget the visceral parts of the experience. So we cut it out and tell him in a battle, he killed four enemies. Without the visceral memories, he can enjoy being a hero, to the benefit of both his country and himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II (Post 1952917)

I'll argue that if it is something extremely seriously like rape or worse, the experience SB related, I'll argue it will still probably be worth it to remove the memory.

To avoid problems, the patient will probably have be told what he had chosen to forget soon after the operation. But knowing you were raped on an intellectual level, while unpleasant, beats having visceral memories of it to high heaven.

It'll be even more useful for soldiers. For example, Soldier A might have killed 4 enemies, a "glorious victory". If only he can forget the visceral parts of the experience. So we cut it out and tell him in a battle, he killed four enemies. Without the visceral memories, he can enjoy being a hero, to the benefit of both his country and himself.

The only downside I can see to that is that the soldier might not like the idea of having killed four people he didn't even know, whether he actually remembers it or not.

But you're right overall, and advancing science is usually a good thing. The question, though, was "would you have it done?" Personally, I don't think so. If somebody else wants it, I support it fully, as long as remains the subject's choice, and not someone else's. That's a whole different can of worms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1952920)

I don't want it done to myself either, although I reserve another's right to have it done as you have said. What concerns me is the can of worms itself. It could become very attractive to alter the minds of people deemed 'problematic' by society, and I think that is scary stuff.

There is an alternative method which doesn't involve any medical proceedure.
Entering politics is a very good method for aquiring selective memory loss.