Take a look at post #766 and #787 specifically in the RFB2.0 thread amongst a few others and you will see what I mean. If you play later in the war this problem won't occur because the escorts are able to zero in on you with radar but if you play very early in the war(1942) when all the enemy has is its visual senses when you are on the surface, that's when it happens. I thought about it maybe being a bad download also and tried getting it elsewhere same issues still occurred though. By me saying "someone should take up the reigns and finish it" I may have insulted someone but that was not my intention maybe I should have said still needs some "smoothing" in my opinion. I see things in it like DD's bobbing around like corks when they chase you also. I meant no disrespect I know guys do this work for free and I appreciate it. I just thought it was a shame these few minor things couldn't get looked at to make it a better mod.

S Boat Depth
 

I tested how far down you could go in my s-boat and the deadly area seems to be around 320ft. I hope this information helps with regards to developing some tactics for the s boats.:yeah::up::up::up:

Well............

Maybe you need to change your mindset and your tactics will follow.

I really like TMO. It's a gas. With that being said.............

I assume that I will be detected. I expect to be detected once I attack. I usually can get by a screen. If I'm detected before I reach firing position; I just drive right on in and wreak havoc. Anywhere from a standard to flank bell. Many depth and course changes. You need to know your enemies detection capabilities............Don't sit around waiting for the cans and hope they don't knock you on the head. They will.

I try to be outside anyones detection arc by about 1000 yards..... minimal facing aspect. Deep.

From range you need to analyze the formation and the escort patterns.

From there I usually draw a line indicating the formations overall course.... (I'm thinking LARGE formations right now...just scale down as neeeded..)

Then I look at the disposition of escorts and their sweep pattern.

They all usually cover a certain amount of frontage. I look for the "thin" points where they overlap and that's where I penetrate the screen.

The buggers might get right on you....but they don't necessarily got you. You need to be able to recognize when they're just dropping versus making a dead on run over your head and unloading. Don't let them spoof you into evasive maneuvers unecessarily.

Anyhow.........the mindset change you need to make is thus; you state (paraphrased) "I was deep, silent and slow....but they heard me!!!!"

As if you shouldn't have been.

The point is...assume that you will be detected and fight as such. Be the aggressor. Screw conserving your fish. I shot 4 at a minesweeper last patrol. 3 missed, when the 4th got him.....it was a hoot, blew him out of the water......broke him in half, blew the forward section into the air and it spun upside down and then crashed into the water.

Less then a 1000 tons but the visual was certainly worth it.

Regarding evasion............

You need to pick your axis of escape and maneuver around that. It's usually the opposite direction of the formation. Change depth a lot. you don't need to necessarily maneuver drastically. All it takes is a chess like mindset. Think in terms of boat lengths.

I wish I could be more concise about my play style; a great part of it is using the hydrophones and imagining what they're doing on the surface and maneuvering ahead of the game.

A big part of it is knowing when the heat is really on and driving to periscope and fighting the boat. Down the throat shots. A whole nest of fish. Don't even think about torpedo conservation. Think boat conservation.

Oh yeah....go find Bungo Pete. He'll teach you a lot about evasion.

;)

Have fun....

Where can I get these mods? Did not see them in the download section.They work fine with TMO?

sorry for ressurecting an old thread. I'm a long time RFB+RSRDC player who recently switched to TMO2.5+RSRDC and wanted to offer my 2 cents..

regarding the AI, TMO 2.5 is not substantially different or more or less realistic than RFB, it is just a different interpretation of the same reality. I have done a number of RSRDC single missions to test the AI, sometimes it finds you easier in TMO than RFB, sometimes it does'nt.

It does appear easier to be found in TMO when at periscope depth, but appears easier to avoid detection if below the thermal layer + silent running, so the trick of diving below an escort screen does work.

Looking through the TMO and RFB "sim" files, you see that TMO is not harder than RFB; it is in certain areas, but easier in others. For example, it is easier to be found in TMO than RFB in clear calm waters or during the day, but it is easier to be found in RFB than TMO in choppy waters or at night.

It is also relatively easy to escape if you are found. Going deep below the thermal layer and "silent running" usually does the trick. I have had some close calls, but have always managed to escape so far. Again, looking at the "sim" file shows that the TMO AI will give up quicker if it does not reestablish contact than the RFB AI.

As a final tip, when trying to escape from an escort, it is probably not a good idea to use bursts of "flank speed". Unlike RL, DC blasts will not mask your noise in SH. Using "flank" just makes it easier for the escort to reestablish contact. Staying at "silent running" and just using the rudder to get out of the way is usually a better long term strategy.

If TMO escorts drop charges on me, I'm going flank so I can outrun them, I find going slow even at depth is a good way for a group of cans to land right on you. If you're being pinged they can't listen anyway so they don't hear you.

This.....when they drop right on top of you, I go to flank with 15 degrees rudder to get out of the DC pattern. THEN go back to silent running hoping that they lose me when they come around again. It usually works and after a few runs they turn the wrong way and I'm gone. The operative word here is "usually" :D

Every one has a favorite technique, but there is always a trade off.

Yes, an escort pinging is not listening, but when you are facing 2-3 escorts, there is a good chance at least one is listening.

Running at "Flank" even for 30 seconds will not move the sub very far. At 2 knots "silent running", a sub will move about 100 feet in 30 seconds. At 9 knots "flank", the sub will move about 450 feet in the same time, probably more like 350-400 feet if the boat is accelerating and decelerating from 2 to 9 to 2 knots in 30 seconds. The 300 feet difference is about one boat length. It may get you out of the damage zone of the DCs, it may not.

On the other hand, running at "flank" makes your boat very noisy and easier to pick up by any escort nearby. As soon as one regains contact, their clock gets reset and they will all continue searching for you for a set period of time.

I not played after 1943 yet, tmo 2.5 difficulty for me is the best balanced one i played. I do not notice escort 'super powers' at all, but is still dangerous at a level i like. I remember when playing RSRD campaign the game seemed to be more easy can be?.

Pussies
 

Try TMO2.0 to 2.2 with the Optical Training Mod supplemented with Toyyo's Revenge option. The mod has not yet made compatible with TMO2.5. The combination is the hardest game out there. The destroyers are transformed into terminators.

oh, yea. I almost forgot. Waves to the Nicolas, who gave us the Easy Aob!!