:DL
Yes, your emotions are evident.
Personally, I do not care what platform will builded Hans mod. After several years of modding and poor development of the SH series as a simulator with elements of arcade game, I totally lost interest in her.
I just wanted to express my views on the issue.
... and do not need convince me in anything - it is useless.
:salute:

... following the discussion initiated in the SH3 HAHD thread, TheDrakWraith wrote:

I think we all know by now that SH5 is the platform with most potential and most open to changes. But the main problem is that unfortunately any relevant changes are limited to people with very advanced skills like you or Privateer. Of course, in SH3/4 many things were like that, and had Swakjer not jumped in, we would still be sitting in the stone age, so to speak (Regarding tools that the average guy can use, not of course the hexeditors that only some brilliant minds can profit from). But the difference is that while in SH3/4 lots of brilliant minds pured in, following the worldwide success of SH3, the fiasco of SH5 has cut the community's wings almost completely.
What will happen to SH5 once you've had enough of it, TDW? SH3/4 can live and grow strong to their limits thanks to all that has been done, but SH5's potential is still largely unlocked and its fate lies in the had of very few people.

Quite frankly, SH4 as modding platform is nowadays a sure bet, while SH5 still is a promise. Even with all the brilliant and hard work you and other guys have put into it, I fail to see an area excet graphics where it has clearly surpassed SH3/4.

And as Makman brilliantly put it in the other thread, graphics are OK for a week of "Ohhhh" "Ahhhhh" "Wooooohhhh" but then ... you need gameplay.

That HAHD over SH5 would be simply the best thing next to sex with Miss Universe is clear to me, but HAHD has many more chances of being finished with SH4 than us having sex with Miss Universe, and that is the problem.

My 2 cents

I always think...why are modding communities so separated.If you look at modding teams in other games you will see what can happen is amazing when many form as one.

IMHO I would go for SH5 as main HAHD sim.It has scripting possibilities fellas.This allows so much to be added to the "simulation"....am I right?Look at TDW's work of adding in real navigation with things like asking the NO for a fix and getting response that weather is too bad.Possible to script in that every sub having its own dive model!!Sub in SH5 already has the function of a 3D walkaround as basis so new subs should be easily ported?? Sober or trevally(sorry I dont know exact)is working on the navigation buoys for ports to be exactly where they should be etc and on and on and on..........:up::up:

I still can't understand the way people are so attached to a certain version and constantly saying the other is bad.....same game engine with a few tweaks here and there.You need to be one as a community with a few people as main dictators.:har:Seriously though imagine what would happen if all the different modders came under one goal....to make HAHD(or whatever you wanna call it) the ultimate submarine simulation in the world.The leaders give out tasks,the modders make it happen.

Look at Project Reality for BF2 and just released for Arma2.This is a huge team of modders that come together for a common goal of creating real battlefields in the games they chose.They each get a job they are good at,like a few are excellent at changing the weapon positions and that is what they do mainly.Others are excellent at scripting in things like real mortars to rain down pain on enemies,ability to load airplanes with supplies to then drop to soldiers in the field in need.Others just create new vehicles or new troops etc.

WIKI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Reality
Gameplay Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI7MBq89IC4

yes, youre right. main problem is, there are too few who have the knowledge to mod sh5 and go beyond the borders...and some of them wont share their knowledge to others. so theres a big gap in skills. as someone said in another post, many of the "old gang" left the sh-series after the big fail of sh5. and most of who are left, mod sh3 or sh4, as they know what to do there. they got familiar with the structure and the tools used.

sh5´s only friendly side for modding is the scriptability. making scripted stuff (which cannot be done by many) and create custom UIs. but..if there is even NO slot for own 3d models?! no other uboats? no useful tools? no support for the modding-community? i can understand, why only a few comrades are left modding this game, its simply hard to mod.

look at "Cliffs of Dover". this is how a community is supported by the developers.

:yep:

but for us the reality is not that bright. we would need the help, cause beside the bugs, many things in sh5 seems already at its limit, even its the game with the best potential. but we cant use it, as to the knowledge limitations and the lack of good tools, which make modding easier for people, who have another live than coding software.

its a shame, what ubi did to us with sh5...when looking, what a great community grew in the years. it not only splitted the crew here, it also forced many to leave the boat. i get really upset...thinkin about this.

:nope:

Hi mate,

Excellent point you are bringing to the debate and if someone tell me that i can transform SH5 to SH3 then the decision would be obvious for me.

But so far even the top coding guru here can't give me that answer and someone that have the caliber of Skwasjer to do a real tool set is not born yet and i doubt someone will have the dedication skwasjer put in s3d editor skwasjer was a true programmer with experience and that show in his amazing tool and i get mad when i see folks here that are bashing him when they don't have an inch of his talent and knowledge.

So if anyone here can make a tool as good or better then s3d editor for SH5 then we can start talking seriously about the ultimate platform for our high quality vision.

A hex editor is a wonderful tool when you know how to use it but let's be realistic about what the workload is with a hex editor i mean large amount of assets integration like 3d models, textures, animation etc if done only by hex it will take you close to 500 years before your mod is done so hex for heavy modding is totally unrealistic.

Hex should only be a tool to write an editor like s3d editor to speed up the workflow thinking the other way around is pure non sense.

I can picture a game studio making a full game via hex release date 3088 Q1:k_rofl:
So are we going to look at it seriously in a real team effort or is this going to turn out as another EGO war?

Give me the tools i need and i will give you the ultimate dream sim.(As long as the platform choose is capable of some simulation)

Best regards Hans

I agree somewhat yes. If SH3 was 'ditched' sooner by the community as a whole in favor of SH4, the pool of modders would have been bigger and SH4 would have had more success. And that's the downfall of SH5, at least for me but time will tell. But when it was launched, there simply werent enough people to carry over from SH4. Those that stuck with SH3 now find them looking at this thing called SH5 which is a couple of technologies ahead. That and lacking good tools makes it hard to get picked up by the mass. SH4 is the best bet for SH3-modders, it's engine is similar as are the tools. And there's a good framework built by the 'old dogs', both in gameplay and visuals. SH5 still has quite some time to go in that respect (not to mention the inability to import new models, at least easily)

Hi mate,

Yep i know that since i begun HAHD i try to rally everyone to one major goal but EGO are to strong so it seem impossible because some have develop a cult like relationship and like to be adore by their cult follower!:k_rofl:
I have the strange feeling i will do all the work alone without much cooperation from others and this mean long hours ahead for me but luckily for supporter i am a very dedicated men when i start on a project i never let go until it is finish.

Also i am getting deeper in the coding aspect of thing and surprisingly i am not bad at all at it so getting more experience in that field is a plus for HAHD. When they don't want to share knowledge you have to beat them at their own game.

If only i could clone myself let's say to a dozen specimen then thing would start to be on the fast lane.:k_confused:
Best regards Hans

You all need to quit being so freakin' lazy. I need tools to do this, I need tools to do that....that is pure and simple laziness and making excuses. Everybody in today's world wants things handed to them. They sit there with their hand out saying give me give me. Learn how the game engine works, learn the files and you will be much better at making whatever you want to make. Quit relying on crutches and others to do the work :nope: Everything isn't always easy....yes you might have to learn something for a change and it might take some time to do.
If I had this lazy/crutch mentality I'd be nowhere with SH5 today.
The excuse of only certain people possess the knowledge to do things in SH5 is total horse crap. Are you capable of learning? I think you are. You just choose to take the easy route and wait for a handout/crutch.

Hi mate,

Sorry to disappoint you but Skwasjer made something useful for the community that no one else will be able to do here period.

This is call cooperation someone with programing knowledge made a tool and 3d artists can pursue their vision with it.

Learning to master 3D art take years and very few are capable of doing everything even my best students were not able to do advanced stuff before a good 3 years of practice and polishing their skill.

So modding is exactly the same as game developing and in a studio we learn that cooperation between the programing department and the graphic design lead to success if done right.

And please i have a bunch of respect for you but your answer to Urfish is not very friendly to say the least imagine i come in SH5 forum saying to someone that we don't need him coming in SH3 forum.

Tact and diplomacy is a better way of dealing with people even the one we don't like to much:Kaleun_Salute:
Best regards Hans

I have no problems with Urfish. I have problems with people putting down something because they choose not to try and understand/learn it :yep:
The unfamiliar is intimidating at first but when you break it down into little pieces and examine it you find it's not that unfamiliar.
I could care less what you all do with SH3 or SH4. But to come bashing SH5 because you don't understand it/it's unfamiliar is unacceptable. That kind of negativity will make SH5 go nowhere fast. There are a handful of us that are fighting hard to keep SH5 alive because we see the potential it has.

Hi mate,

So far no one clearly explain what is possible so the whole confusion begin right there and even if we go in each different forum the information on the sate of the modding possibility are not mention in a clear and precise readme so that what make people say misleading about this version or this one.

On my side i am now contemplating each version to attain our ultimate goal because it is a lot of work and i want to make the best possible investment of my time on a platform that will not be limited in the middle of the process .


We need another dedicated programer like skwasjer that is a real fact in my book.

Best regards Hans

:hmmm:I am only a lowly deckhand so I have no say in the matter but instead I have a view with no ego.:03:Why not agree to join forces right here and right now.3 very important people have posted in this mod in past 5 posts.If you all agree to take on leadership roles in your respective field then the magic can begin.....right??

First question is Skwajser,could you or rather will you make the tool for SH5?This is very important first step:up:Hans can keep doing what he is doing and TDW....there must be a zillion things that scripting will do to streamline this process?

If you want to go the familiar route then SH4 is your best platform. It has potential way beyond SH3. This is my opinion only: modding SH3 is a waste of time when SH4 is far superior (comparing the two). But if you want all out raw power, flexibility, and a platform that can use advanced features then you have to turn to SH5 :yep:
They say first impressions last. My first impression of SH4 was that of total crap (because it was SH3 with a little more potential) thus is why I'll never go back to it. My first impression of SH5 was total crap also but peeking under the hood changed that impression in a heartbeat.

I hate the word scripting. It's not really scripting in SH5. It's a way to extend the game. You can make custom dlls and load them into the game via the 'scripting'. If you want to see scripting then look at the script engine I made for SH5 that lets you write your own scripts for the game engine to run.

Wolfstriked I hate working with others. It's just the way I am. I prefer to work alone. It's just much easier that way.

The way I look at it though is that you will make all this work for SH4 and then have to port over to a very different engine in SH5.It seems that everyone should agree right now to all join in on Sh5.As you pointed out SH4 was disregarded and sadly so but now there is a better engine for everyone to pour their hearts in to.

:haha:
Oho, sounds not bad...
But why these "rant"... you are in modding, because you like it... you wants self-confirmation on the forum to raise your self-esteem.

Hi shipmates,

As we can see so far no majors modders from the SH4 community have show up so i think the SH4 community is not as active now as it was before.

Not blaming anyone here just seeing the lack of interest is not a good sign for building a solid team, let's hope it is just because they are away temporarily.

I did some test last night with the water shader and the water model aka animation algorithm and i think i will be able to fix the ocean mechanical behavior and for the lighting it is really easy to adjust to fit the overall look of the Atlantic theater.

When i will have spare time i will import the HAHD typ IIA to see if i can adjust the physic and behavior, i will post pic as soon as i have them.

Best regards Hans

I'm a jurist by profession; I finished high school and then 5 years university in laws plus 2 years sitting at home studying 14+ hours daily 365 days a year to pass one of the most hard exams possible in the spanish administration for becoming a highly qualified rate A public servant (Average time to pass that exam is normally 5 years).

I would like to see you, who IIRC are engineer by profession, learning in some weeks, months or even years to make the studies, informations or veredicts I do.

Despite having chosen the specialy of humanities at high school (which means no maths, physics or chemical study for me from the 10th grade onwards) I have learned to use Paint Shop pro, modelling programs, basic programming, and have participated and created lots of mods here and in motorsport sims.

But there is a limit, and I can't compete with someone who is dedicated to sciences and computers, same as him won't be able in many years to reach half the level I have as jurist.

You must accept it, mate, I know you have a brilliant mind and as such you tend to undersestimate the difficulties that other people, even if intelligent enough, have when it comes learn certain things. It's not a matter of lazyness, and I know any of us can learn a lot, but at what cost? If computers and programming is not your profession or key to it, but your hobby instead, the effort of learning the fundaments of what is needed to start creating tools or doing "deep" modding is simply not worth it.

Thinking that someone should invest almost as many years as in his professional formation, just to be able to add new units to a computer game is simply crazy ... accept it ;)

SH4 forum has become no mans land, where modders from SH3 and SH5 skirmish. :haha:

So many brilliant minds here. And a shame to see them so divided.

Hans, did you try Optical Targetting Correction mod with Trigger Maru 2.2? It's enjoyable experience.

I believe SH4 platform offers better damage and flooding modelling. Surely a huge bonus!

Hi Hans,
Recently, I have not seen your new pictures, it would be very interesting to watch.:hmmm:

I think would be something like this::)
IID
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9...7225145796.jpg
IIA
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7...2504984ndi.jpg
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5...1213122765.jpg

I think you're slightly wrong.
The engineer is not a profession ... it's category of labor.
Thermotechnics engineer - it's a profession, but it also touches to IT how and the profession of jurist.
Of course general erudition man that ended a technical university allowing him easier to learn the wisdom of IT. But the main it's human character, his desire for knowledge and skill to his curiosity.
I know more than a hundred people with technical education, but are not able to learn to work with HexEditor, Photoshop, 3ds max and so on... because they lack the desire and patience to learn it.
... and personally i do not see ... "you have a brilliant mind", sorry, but i see great desire to know more and more...