You are getting it, now reverse that; take Holodecks, Warp Drive, Phasers out of Star Trek and what do you have left? Nothing. That has to be the test of Sci Fi, if you take the Science and Technology out of the story is there a story left?

Go back and watch them again... I don't think you understood them the first time... :-?

What you said made me die a little inside. :stare:

Curious, what would you consider good sci fi on TV? :hmmm:

Heh, reminds me of this, and this story :hmmm:

Also,
http://www.fpusadailyplanet.com/wp-c.../09/Quorra.jpg

Well, if you take the science fiction elements out of Star Wars, then it completely loses the point and becomes fantasy. As I said, Star Wars is partly fantasy since it does indeed have many fantasy elements, but it is certainly not "not science fiction", since it is defined by its science fiction setting.

Did someone mention Gina Torres , and NOT Vicky Pratt ?
http://rnd2pics.com/view2.php?q=Cleo...ra2525trio.jpghttp://www.voyager.cz/download/image...ra2525trio.jpg
http://rnd2pics.com/view.php?q=Cleop...ra2525trio.jpg

I can't imagine actually liking any of the new ST stuff. I saw some DS9, but thought it was pretty dumb, as was whatever that other ST was, and Enterprise.

Forget the "science" aspect (as I said, I have a moderately large SF library of ~500 books (I've read slightly more that that since I have been loaned SF books by friends) so I'm not "anti" SF by any possible stretch. ST has crap stories. It is internally inconsistent (grossly).

We used to watch TNG in my shop when we worked late (some station had 2 back to back every evening here) and we used to play a game where we'd try and solve the plot during the commercial 15 minutes in using technobabble from any episode in any earlier episode. We never failed. They developed virtually everything... invulnerable shields (they flew through a sun as I recall), or there is always time travel (slingshot at will since "real" ST (Enterprise Incident?)).

First few seasons of B5 were decent though the time travel broke that as well, hopelessly. I liked the recent BSG from a storytelling POV. I also like Firefly (haven't seen all of them) as story telling. I've seen all ST:TOS multiple times, and all TNG at least once, enough DS9 to get a feel, and I could only stomach a couple voyager or whatever it was. Bottom line is that the biggest problem with ST is the lack of consistency. If you develop an invulnerable shield, then virtually every episode later needs to address that change. Since episodes were written by different people, there is no such consistency in the ST canon so it is a mess. And while the Feds might be ridiculous about not using time travel that doesn't mean anyone else will be

Example: find out where Borg started, go back in time, and wipe them out before they leave home. Done. Oh, wait, stopping a genocidal race is "wrong" because the PD says so. Riiight. Better for billions to die.

Nope, since time travel is possible in ST, then the BORG will also go back in time and enslave everyone before they are even space faring. OF the Romulans will use it. Bottom line is that time travel breaks everything. IMHO, adding time travel instantly makes whatever it is pulp at best (I like good pulp, but ST aint good pulp).

That show was never made, for mentioning the unmentionable we shall now burn you at the stake.:nope:

You mean like it was made with the witches in the Middle Ages, :timeout:

BULLS**T, I used to watch it regularly. Of course it was hard to call it sci-fi when they were acting out my fantasy.;)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206476/

Fail. The list is missing Jane Seymour from the original Battlestar Galactica.

Yes Trek is inconsistent, show me anything that has run as long as it and is still consistent. Pointing out that episode X doesn't match up with episode Y doesn't necessary mean its bad. Is the story its self good or important or exciting you should ask?

Tomorrow is Yesterday was the episode for the Slingshot Maneuver, and yea time travel will solve most problems except when it doesn't.

There are several episodes that deal with this. Most of the plot of Enterprise was about this! Basically there is a Federation agency(s) in the future that work to prevent this.

"I, Borg" dealt specifically with this problem. As did several other episodes.

Picard: "The Prime Directive is not a matter of... degrees, it is an absolute... we have to be cautious. What we do today, may profoundly affect the future. If we could see every possible outcome..."
Riker: "... we'd be gods, which we are not. If there is a cosmic plan, is it not the height of hubris to think we can or should interfere?"
-Pen Pals (TNG)

(BTW Stuff like that is what TNG is about, not technobabble)

Because...

DUCANE: The Pogo Paradox.
SEVEN: A causality loop in which interference to prevent an event actually triggers the same event.
DUCANE: Excellent. Can you give me an example?
SEVEN: The Borg once travelled back in time to stop Zefram Cochrane from breaking the warp barrier. They succeeded, but that in turn led the Starship Enterprise to intervene. They assisted Cochrane with the flight the Borg was trying to prevent. Causal loop complete.
DUCANE: So, in a way, the Federation owes its existence to the Borg.
SEVEN: You're welcome.
-Relativity (Voy)

There are several episodes that deal with that. Parallels and the "Neu Trek" for example. Basically that if you travel back in time you create a separate reality different than the one you left, and every possible event that can occurs does in a separate reality. This is both Star Trek Science and real life theoretical science.

Also if you get in to real hard core sci fi, time travel becomes interconnected with any FTL travel.

I will not accept your evidence for the existance of that show, you are clearly delusional, such crap could never be made!:88)

Yes, I know its real, but it was so **** I don't want to remember it.

+1
List is missing Lucy Lawless from Battlestar Galactica.

...too bad the costumes from Xena are also missing from BSG.:wah:

For all you trekkies:
http://www.google.com/url?source=img...9pRV45xqD3UaXg

Which is why you will never have a real (non-fiction) woman. :har:

I like how the aiming point is in nice contrast to the actual "protection" of the armor.

Those ST episodes that "solve" problems only work for the credulous. Maybe fans that own uniforms. I've seen all of them, and while I can't name the ep names (happily), they were not convincing to me.

ST is pretty awful, sadly. I actually watched a TNG the other night for a while, and was reminded of how much I disliked it. Reminds me of how awful Star Fleet Battles became. I never played with any race not mentioned in the original series, myself, and I never used any "new" ship types (allowed smaller ships for roms and klinks, plus the old tech manual fed stuff like DDs and scouts). The more they added, the worse—and more boring—it became.

Saying they solved the time travel nonsense with Enterprise is funny, since in a universe that allows time travel, someone, someplace in the universe will eventually screw up the big bang force freeze out and make a universe where time travel is NOT possible. Niven wrote a funny essay on that once (it's a sort of infinite monkeys typing Shakespeare argument). In addition, even within the ST "known" universe any hostile force need only go back and change stuff. They can do this at will, at any point they want. The notion of policing it is absurd. Time travel is a weak plot device (sorry, Harlan) and ruins everything.

Doesn't mean it's not sometimes fun (I prefer TOS, campy though it may be), but claiming it is more that fluff is a sign you care too much about a TV show, IMHO. Any random pick in my SF library is better than any ST:TNG episode. by a wide margin (I'll admit, I only kept good books, and dumped crappy ones).

All ST space combat is silly, BTW. Sad for those of us that dig space combat. When engagement ranges are SHORTER than mid 20th century naval combat... you're doing it wrong.

keeps their enemies confused while the disruptor gets drawn.

Tater: Star Fleet battles was great in it's original form, until about expansion 3 (mid 80's), I used to play the tholians quite a bit.

You also forget about the 'reunification' miniseries within TNG, if ST:TNG never existed except those 4 eps I'd be happy.

Is that a disruptor in your pocket, or... oh, nvm. <BANG!>