It might eventually pave the way for the United Federation of Planets. :haha:

It is not people like Ducimus that have ruined the United States, quite the opposite. It is those who support globalism that have brought about the ruin of the nation. I find Ducimus' dissent to be wholly patriotic.

I find the anti-globalization argument to be sort of odd. I just don't "get it."

We've always had "globalization," the only difference is that it used to be "owned" only by the few big players, and was either real colonialism, or "market" colonialism—extract from someplace else, and ship home.

Was the old china trade (clipper ships) not "globalization? Was it OK simply because we made loads of cash on the deal?

The notion that the loss of some US industry is wrong is crazy, IMHO. Do you really think it was sustainable for the US to be more than 50% of world manufacturing forever, when we are such a small % of the world's population? Before, the US (and the West in general) was at a huge technological advantage vs the East. They could not possibly make the stuff we did. that was bound to change. Once the process of production is able to be replicated anywhere, the only blocks to "globalization" would be what? Currency devaluation? Crippling tariffs? Simply banning foreign goods? Look at US cars before there was serious foreign competition. 1970s POS American cars. That's what you'll get.

Enlighten me, I just don't buy the anti-globalization (gotta be screwy when morons like Pat Buchannan and unbathed, leftist students (who've never had a real job) are against it (that constellation is a major "pro" argument to my mind).).

As a moron, I can't think that anything I could type in this box would possibly serve as enlightenment.

Then you only love parts of America. There are still places where you can't buy alcohol on Sunday. :damn::damn::damn::damn::damn:

Wow, you're Pat Buchanan?

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you bathe ;)

Well all that I can say is that Marx was half right
his analysis of capitalism was right
He has predicted the creation of people like Ducimus
"With the exploitation of the working class in the colonies, the economies of the home countries would collapse, allowing a working class revolution to take place"

No, but I happen to agree with his stance on the matter, which makes me, in your own words, a moron like Pat Buchanan. Pro tanto.

Ahem -The cheap or cheapest, (and I am assuming by using a coloquial term as booze, you mean alcohol beverage) is not necessarily the one requiring the nominal fiscal outlay on your behalf, moreover due to the varying nature of trade discounts and profit margins , the cheapest product when purchased wholesale is not ipso-facto the least expensive when retailed to the public. :hmmm:

There is a reason my Chinese mass products are considered as throwaway products, cheap in any meaning of the word. The manufaction process - robots, machines, manual labour - doesn't say anything about the quality of the product. Substandard materials and unsophisticated technology is what you'll find when you perform an autopsy on any Chinese (electronic) device.

Also there is a reason for the success of Japanese, Taiwanese or Korean products. They have an affordable price combined with a reasonable technic standards and often innovations behind.

The consumer of today only looks for the price tag. Quality and duration don't seem to play a role anymore in purchase decision process. The folks seem to have accepted the fact that devices kick the bucket after two dozen months.
We have the phenomen here, that the brand names of good companies are sold to cheap manufacturers who buy them to sell their chinese **** under a label which once stood for quality. Mostly older folks fall for this, they used to have a Grundig or Telefunken product for 40 years and wonder when their new tv blows to pieces after 2 years :nope:.

I work in an industry where we pay top dollars for state-of-the-art technology. The price is secondary compared to innovative and clever technology. None of our devices was manufactured in China, except for some LAN cables, lol. Personally I do the same, I am willing to pay good money for good products and I expext quality. In terms of food I try to buy local when possible.

One thing hasn't even brought into this discussion:
When buying chinese you support a dictatorship with a state-capitalistic type of Manchester capitalism under the guise of a communist agenda.

He might be right on things here and there, but he's none the less an idiot. I don't bother following the economic theories of holocaust deniers. Yep, poisoning the well, but guess what, there are others who are not idiots who can likely articulate an anti-globalization mindset better than he can, anyway.

If he's the best spokesperson for that POV, the POV must be pretty devoid of merit.

I should add that while I do buy stuff made in China, I try hard to buy local goods whenever I can. My kitchen... local cabinet maker (not local installer, but the stuff started as wood in his shop). Tiles? Local artist. New skylights? Entirely made here in NM. Ditto will be my replacement windows (have to do that soon, ugh). Oh, I'm plastering walls now myself. americanclay.com (here in ABQ). Heck, I'm not even looking at Volvos since China bought them from Ford.

The reality is that I think the arguments against it are simplistic, and wrong. Can trade be improved? Sure. I'd need to see counter-arguments, but I could see setting up US tariffs to be reciprocal (we'll tax your imports exactly as you tax ours).

I'm not sure how I feel about the question of globalization. Here in America there is a large liberal trendiness to hate Wal-Mart. The main reason given is that they "buy a lot of stuff from China". Yet when I look at packaging I see that most televisions you can buy today say "Made in China" on the package. Just recently someone touted Philips Electronics as a shining example of home-grown business (in this case from The Netherlands). But guess what? "Made in China". Also look at the box a PS3 comes in: "May be made in Japan, Korea, Malaysia or China".

I looked at a couple different websites and found differing definitions of the term "Globalization", and I'm not sure who here is arguing for which term. It's like "Multiculturalism". The term gets a bad rap, but I like Italian, Mexican and Japanese food equally. I guess I'm just to dim to understand.

I'm only posting to pay tribute to Americas largest export, "AIR" evidenced by the empty cargo containers on the west coat shipping ports headed back in order to help Asia amass more wealth. China already rules, owns and governs the US leveraged with its money.

The one thing the Chineese deserve the most credit for is simply that they choose currently not to fly their flag atop the Capitol bldg, as they know that the Americans in no way would tolerate such a takeover.

This was one hot and going thread until I brought up one of the most noteworthy truths. I guess most people are in denial and would rather walk away than face the truth.......My post sure got the views but.......

We know we have a trade imbalance with China, that's no surprise. China can be a large manufacturer, and China can be a large economy, but their per capita income is weak. They can't afford American products. The US still makes more stuff than china (in dollars), but it, like the chinese stuff, is bought by americans.

If the cost of mfg in the US is so high that Americans can't afford it, and it's cheaper to make something halfway around the world and ship it here, then there is no way US stuff will be a mass market product someplace with a fraction of the disposable income per household. Not to mention the trade imbalance is basically what China loans us for our insane spending.

Step one to fixing the problem is to stop gov from spending the way it does.

What can we do? "Hey, China, you bastards! We'll show you, we're gonna massively increase tariffs on your goods! BTW, on your way out, please remember to stop and buy some T-bills! Thanks, come again!"

Fixed.

Thanks for renewing the thread Tater. It really is a good thread. Maybe I should not have posted so boldly, and all you said is true. It kills me the way the economy is and to see the empty shipping containers heading west into the sunset is bothersome......I'm done posting here and thanks again...