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Well said Elanaiba. Probably splitting off as a separate company holds great rewards, but also great risks. Under cover of Ubisoft, you can still get through with a bad seller or two, but on your own, any risks become "much riskier".

Hmmh, I think after SHIII and SHIV, the Silent Hunter Series was at a turning point. And the general decision, whoever made it, to go for mass market and casual gamer audience just appears not to work with this type of game. It may never have been the hard-core "game" (simulation, whatever) like Falcon 4, Jane's Longbow or so, but I don't think that any of those games feature topics that are enticing to a general audience. My impression is that kiddies just go for quick fun action with shallow learning curves these days, and are scared off by something that might relate to closely to reality, and where you could even learn something.

Have you ever considered doing the exact opposite, and focus on the actually "tiny" customer ship of this genre by going into the premium market? Say SH(x) would cost a good $80 from now on, and that would allow you to spent 4-5 years working on any sequel so it really comes out polished, bug-free and with really new content -- that content and those improvements, that your customer ship was really asking for. This will not get you any casual gamer that just looks for a quick game on a Saturday afternoon, but I am quite confident it would have worked with the people in this community. Maybe that is something to think about?

EA? :woot:

Dan, I think you might have misunderstood the intent of my comment. :hmmm: My comment was meant to sound silly and illogical, to highlight the silliness of "I've met Dan, he's great and loves subsims, so the devs are not to blame" comments that are posted here by the same few every so often (thus my reference to "those who have met Dan would have us believe" and "people here are quick to claim" rather than direct reference to you guys). Of course we, and other objective people, know such comments are rubbish and too simplistic. Just like you guys leaving and forming your own company. Some of us understand that there are more important things in life than subsims, such as a stable income for providing for family and so on.

And that was the point I was trying to make. ;)

But thank you for your comments. You have my utmost respect for your open acknowledgement of your contribution to the product (which you first made months ago), even though I'm sure others here will continue to stick to their "it's all the suits' fault" mantra...

I agree that the 'suits' that everyone blames are possibly something of a mythical entity.

But why is it 'silly' to say 'he is a great guy and love subsims'?
Regardless of the outcome of SH5 and his own accountablilties and flaws - that statment needn't be rubbish on its own merrit.

Here is another angle on this matter:
Every time some one praises Dan or defends him, you seem pop up to brand them as a fanboy etc.
Surley you can understand that by repeatedly doing this, it makes you look no less opinionated?

You keep refering to yourself as 'objective' but in your seemlingly persistant quest to tackle the extremists, are you sure that you yourself have not wound up as one at the other end of spectrum??

Because that is how it is starting to look.

It's not silly to say he's a great guy who loves subsims. I've no doubt that's 100% true. It's drawing the blind conclusion that because he's a great guy socially, who enjoys a drink or whatnot, that therefore anything wrong with SH5 professionally can't possibly be his or the devs' fault (heck, Dan is but one of at least 50 people involved with SH5).

See the difference? ;)

That's what is silly. Not at all what one thinks of Dan as a guy to have a drink with.

Look at it this way - you might think I'm a jerk...does that mean JSGME or SH3Cmdr sucks? If you said "I've met JScones and I think he's a jerk" then fine. If you then added "so JSGME and SH3Cmdr must be rubbish", there's the silliness (or fallacy, to be more exact).

It you look at my posts, this is what I comment against, not what anyone thinks of Dan as a person.

^Thats fair enough mate^
I dont think your a jerk - I was really talking about perception rather than the actual facts of the matter.

Yeah, I understand. It's just that no-one has ever posted "SH5 sucks so Dan must be a jerk to know socially" (or if they have they've been buried well before I've noticed them). That would draw the exact same response from me, FWIW.

I work on logic. Fallacies and non sequiturs irritate me no end.

On occasion, it has been observed. :yep:

To me, in a dream world...it would be Oleg Mattox/1C.

They seem to do very good off-mainstream titles that capture both the feel and the intricacies of operating whatever they model. So far they have done very well at obscure aircraft (most would say that a "Sturmnovik" simulation would be too 'niche' to sell to a wide audience), WWII tanks, and 3D strategy. Their experience with each of the above would bode well for a quality submarine simulation (although admittedly they would likely concentrate on something again obscure...like russian subs in the baltic sea)...but who knows?


:salute:

sure it is your responsibility Dan BUT you are not doing anything about it...

Nope because he and his team have been assigned to other projects by managment (not nessicarily 'suits' it could be someone in jeans and Tshirt you know ;-) )
Considering how many boycotted the game over U-play, it is not surprising.
Not that im placing the blame with the consumer. Ubi should have done a bit more research before chaining its consumers to a server.

I guess an AAA title like AC2 wasn't hit so hard with PS3 and Xbox 360 versions availiable.
But for pc only niche market SH5 - suicide.

You have no idea what I have done or not. But in the end, you are right in that results matter and from that point of view, we might as well have done nothing...

I disagree with that. Thank you for what you have done.

There are those of us that sincerely appreciate your efforts.

Here here, and I shall do the pleasure of :salute: and may the appreciation be carried on. :yeah:

i am judging the result Dan ! i don't care about the background 'stories' or the intentions that may all of you had ....
yes, it 'carries' your names and becuase of that the treatment must have been way more than this....how can we call this ? (i don't even dare to give it a describe...)
and what do you do after the release (leave outside the fact that this must have never been released at this state but you SELL IT AS FINISHED).....nothing ! two patches ...that their purpose was ONLY TO FIGHT the pirates and NOT to correct things !

stadimeter WAS NOT FIXED TO NEITHER BOTH PATCHES ! although this community mentioned from the start this bug ...you simply don't care ...you don't pay attention to us at all !! and if i am wrong at this...then ,please ,tell us why stadi was not fixed to neither both patches.and,on the other hand, you leave so long time now the TDW 'fighting' with your faults to correct some things...WHY?? (...and stadi is just an example...)

TDW(and not only) is spending his free time Dan for your 'baby' ! why you(and your team) don't spend some of your free time to give some fixes ? the 'picture' that you (and your team) is showing outside(at least to my eyes) is that you don't care at all !!but you keep telling at your posts that you all cares enough and words...words...words . give us some facts Dan !

Dan,judging the result i know that is cruel sometimes but in this case there is no way to 'cover' the whole thing . graphics is only the 'clothes' for the body (and the last to been taken care). under these nice clothes...we have a body that is 'suffering' not only by the bugs but becuase it is nothing new ! (SUB SIMULATOR gameplay fuctionalities).

becuase i don't congratulate you, this doesn't mean that i am your 'enemy' or i don't respect you or your efforts.but how can i congratulate you for something unfinished and so ''fast made'' job?? i am saying this becuase some people here are 'running' to congratulate you just to make the others -like me- showing as the 'bad guys'.the truth is that i really like the sub SIMULATORS and i will be the first that will congratulate you when you give us something really good...and the last sh Dan was NOT good...not good at all !sorry ,but this is my truth ....waiting your next...'strike' !

You advance briskly!! :shifty: This will, if i mistake not, create some noise. Roll on to your glory... if to be had. :zzz: Good day.

Agree 120% and is not only the stadimeter, but the rec manual and many other things. It's a shame that modders works really hard and spend a LOT of their lifetime to fix the game for free, without any official support or apreciation.

The only ones who performed at max quality in the dev team were the artists. But I have the feeling that they were the team who worked on AC2.. is a huge quality difference between the graphic and code part in SH5. That why the graphics is the only part moded for now, the script part is still fixed day by day.

We could argue for months to come on who to blame, but it's gonna be useless & endless.

As far as I'm concerned, there's only one thing that really matters now: Ubisoft should listen and ''comply'' to modders requests.

But I guess it's gonna take another 6 months ...if ever. :hmmm:

You cant just ignore what happens behind the scenes when you judge a person.

I think you should consider that getting the fixes in place that you mention (which are very valid) is outside the influence of Dan. Can it be the case that Dan have already pointed out these errors? Do you honestly think that its Dans choice to use DRM? The devs have used a lot of their spare time in the mods forums to help out - what does that tell you? Could it be that they care about the game? Could it be that its not their choice when to release a game and make the decision when its ready for release? The list goes on...

I think it takes a lot of guts to come here and be a part of these discussions and to admit to their part in the state of the game.