I think a population's health is just as important to its well-being as its defense.

But maybe the F-22 was a bad example. Let's use public schools. I don't have a kid. Does that mean I shouldn't have to pay the federal/state/local taxes that fund public schools? Why should I have to pay for some other kid's education?

You can't say that a program should only be paid for by those who use it when the entire reason the program exists is because the people who will use it can't afford to pay for it.

@ MAx, especially insurance. THis drives up costs for everyone.

No offense Max, but your health care means absolutely nothing to me. I wish you the best in it, but your own personal decisions will affect your own health status, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. It is your own personal domain and personal responsibility. Hypothetically, I don't want to pay for it for you unless I have a say in your behaviors. Maybe taxpayers who shell out for you can have a say in your diet, mandate an exercise program, deny you the ability to smoke or drink, and anything else that would preclude my investment in your health from becoming a bad "investment". Of course, that is all a hypothetical. But I'm hoping the point is made. I don't go to work every day to pay for your personal life. If you disagree, do you think the taxpayers owe you some sort of Universal Auto insurance plan as well? What else do you feel the taxpayers owe you? If you can argue personal health care, the same illogic can be made for anything?

As far as public schools, I also think that those should also be more of a local and state concern as well. So yeah. I don't wish to steer this topic to schools, but we actually could get better results at less costs anyway if the feds weren't involved. Most private schools have proven better results when competing against others, even at less cost per student. While there are many great teachers in the public school system, I think that many of these teachers may be better off teaching in a system of local concern, and a more competitive environment. I am not a teacher, so I don't claim to be an expert here. And in fairness I haven't actually given much thought about it. But looking at it in one way, on the face of it, I don't think it's bad that parents take responsibility for the education of their children financially and otherwise.

But perhaps we can look at the education example as a lesson, prior to making the same mistake in health care. When the feds get involved it becomes bloated, does not always produce the desired results, and is costly and often filled with waste. I'm glad you brought up education. There is a lesson there to be learned.

100% right on the money :up:

Beautiful Sea Demon....just beautiful!:up: I think you nailed it right on the head how I feel about universal healthcare at my expense. Why should I have to pay for Joey the ditch digger who finds it fun to fight every Friday night and get sewn up in the ER every Saturday morning? I should not have to.

Until you get a say in where you want tax dollars spent, that's exactly what you're doing now and will continue to do so. And you're paying double what other people around the world pay.

"Why should I have to pay for (insert whatever social service you want to hate on)? I don't use it, I don't have a say in how it's operated or who makes use of it." The logical end of that line of reasoning is to quit paying taxes.

Actually, you do. You work 4 months out of the year just to pay taxes. A large percentage of which go to Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, Social Security and various other social services.

No, the logical end of the line is to get people to get off the notion that someone owes them something and they are entitled.

I'm fine with paying double what the world pays. I enjoy the healthcare I have as a result. That, my friend, is my business in the end.

And now you want to dump more bullsh!t on the tax payer? That is rich man, really rich. :shifty:

Do you think the net increase in taxes will be more than the net premiums paid to insurance companies that would go away under a universal healthcare system?

Go away ? :rotfl:

If you dont think that the "BIG INSURANCE" isnt going to get a piece of this pie your dreaming. There in this up to their eyballs.

@ AVG Trying to convince someone that YOU don't owe THEM a liveing is a exercise in Futility. :haha:

Their so comfortable with the GIMME program you go right over their head.

I applaud you that you have the courage to speak your mind. :salute:

Well lets face it...welfare breeds welfare. I see it in my own family and it has become their job of working the system at my expense and the rest of the tax payers expense. My bro-in-law works the system like a champ and expects the government to flip the bill all the time. It makes me want to puke when he gets the state of MD to pay for his $1200.00 electric bill generated from running his large screen TV and the 4 computers he has around the house in the comfort of his home that he is 12 months behind on concerning the mortgage but Obama will take care of that also at my expense. It is just another friggin raw deal for the hard workers and another friggin free ride for others.

Sure, some are hard workers but can not afford insurance. Not my problem. Go find a job that has benefits of health insurance as part of the package. If you are out of work at no fault of your own... apply to Cobra.

Disclaimer: These thoughts are soley my own and are not representative of SS in part or whole:D

I don't care if they are higher or lower. I do not want to pay for any more free loading. Simple as that.

I gotta say, all these scare tactics about socialized healthcare killing off old people is making me support it more. Because it's a well known fact that the blood of the euthanized elderly is like fine wine to us liberals. :|\\

Do's Liberal equat to being a FREELOADER. :haha:

I'm somewhat a liberal who beleives in paying his own freight.

I don't have a prob with Welfare Medical.

YOU just PAY for it. Thank you I'll pay for my healthcare.

It is not scare tactics Mookie...it is just another free ride for those that been riding for free for a very long time.

Furthermore, as far as old people, I got two of them. I call them mom and dad. Even under the medicare government program it is still not enough for care. They have their own policy to suppliment the medicare and paid out of pocket close to $20,000.00 for medications. Great system. Enjoy the new government system:up:

Good points but this is being shoved down the throats of Americans. I have no issue with it but I will be damned to pay twice if I have my own coverage. I will be damned to cover those that do not pay into it. I will be damned if Congress does not have the same policy as everyone.

Looks like I will be damned three times. Somehow everyone feels everyone else should be happy as crap about this. Not the case.

Why does Obama want health care in 4 weeks when it took him 6 months to pick a dog?

Because his daughters are allergic to some dogs. Just like I'm allergic to some of his policies. However, his daughters get top billing. I would do the same with my daughter if in the same position. :D

And you think the health care of 350 million Americans isn't atleast as important as two girls allergies? Sneezing/coughing vs. critical health issues? Please, he didn't have to have a dog at all.