Did I say all the sympathy was phony? Did I say every foreigner hated the US? No? Then what's the point?

Oh, and I agree that our transatlantic "friends" have been VERY supportive of the US. After all, what else can you say about people who call 9/11 the "greatest work of art" ever produced? :lol:

Supportive of the US. Comedy.

Respect to the minority abroad who ARE genuinely supportive and/or fighting against militant Islam.

Have any of you seen this movie? http://www.freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=82 . Its quite disturbing. After being held prisoner for several years without any evidence I to would be pissed, hell picture that my wife had left me in the meantime, sold the house and I've lost my job. I just just might consider doing a bomrun.

the nice-talking of torture by calling the same procedure something different, in the end was a shot going to the wroing direction by 180°. Because what now is called enhanced interrogation, equals the german term "verschärftes Verhör".

Which is an old Gestapo term.

And guantanamo, a camp of arbitrary arrest, and without legal basis, and without any supervision by jurisdiction of another organ of national society, where guilt must not be proven for the fact of being there is enough to prove your guilt, is not any different from the old Gestapo dungeons.

In the beginning, people did not believe when looking at Germany. And when the first rumours appeared, nations looked away.

As long as Guantanamo is what it is, and as long as torture is called enhanced interrogation, and as long as a reasonable legal basis for imprisonment is not taken care of, I will compare it to the Gestapo, alwqays. simply believing what a spokesman says, is not enough in a democratic civil society. you want chcks and balances. And if you will to skip these in favour of driving such institutions because you consider them to be inline with your own demands and intentions, you are not any better than people working in and accepting the existence of the Gestapo.

I hope some concerned minds here feel offended. But fact is - you offend yourself, and the noble intentions and ideas America once, long ago, was founded on.

You have already heard that there are other nations involved in the war in Afghanistan as well?

By the way it was the German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder (no, my nick has nothing to do with him) who called this not an attack on the US alone but an attack on NATO (why would he do that if we all hate you?). The attack was a shock for Europe too!

Who is wishing you ill?
Are we wishing you ill because we didn't go to Iraq?
Iraq was an illegal private crusade of your president. I'm glad we didn't participate. We even warned you of the mess this would become. Is it now our fault that you didn't listen to our advises?

Guantanamo has lowered the reputation of the US dramatically. A country that claims to fight for human rights, liberty and to be the "good one" should be better than denying prisoners basic rights like being tried, having lawyers etc. That's the behaviour that dictatorships show to people they want to have out of the way.
I don't like those extremists either and if they are guilty of murder or attempted murder then let them rot there for the rest of their lifes. But as long as they are not even allowed to defend themselves properly you are acting like the countrys you count to the "evil" ones.

Over the past 5 years the USA has lost it's moral compass and it's consience...we are no longer the Nation we used to be. The terrorists have won.

And what the hell good does killing and torturing terrorists do anyway? Israel has been doing it for decades,and the only terrorist group they managed to pretty much stop was the PLO...and that was by talking to them. Hezbollah,Hamas,Islamic Jihad...Israel has been fighting them for decades...and they are still there.

The USA has learned NOTHING!!!!!

Something for you to think about Subman

Way too simplistic.

Freedom of speech is essential but outlawing the right to yell fire in a crowded theater will hardly bring down the republic.

Standing armies are the bane of freedom but try surviving in this world without one.

You see, this is why I KNOW that Bush is right - how much he ticks off the Euro-Leftists. :D

I ask again - If Americans are considered Nazis by the Europeans (quite funny, considering their own history), why on Earth should Americans listen to all this bleating from across the pond? I guess that all this unsolicited advice is intended to help the "Nazis".:rotfl:

Don't even bother. This is not about reason - it's about a massive inferiority conflex and decades of rabid anti-Americanism.

I agree that this way of thinking is too simplistic. Let me tell you about freedom and security - In my region the government decided to deprive a "person" (and I use the term loosely) of his freedom because he hacked some people to death with a machete. Does that mean the citizens in my area don't deserve liberty or safety? Are we turning into a police state? What would Ben Franklin say?

Oh, and the left-wingers shouldn't even be quoting Ben. Didn't they get the memo? He was a Very Evil Slave Owning White Man! (tm)

Excuse me? First of all, I am not anti american, secondly im not a left winger, nor am I a right winger. Thirdly, inferiority complex? Get over yourself.
Allso locking up a convicted murderer hardly constitutes giving up liberty. Anyhow yes you are becoming a police state, but so is every other western world nation to some degree. The reason I quoted Franklin was to bring some attention to how your country is moving away from the principles it was founded on, not to say that imprisoning convicted criminals is somehow wrong.

Oh noes, a slave owner. I am a decendant of slaves, so what? Him owning slaves or not does not make his point any less valid.

iambecomelife, you are ignoring that Belgian, Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, German, and French troops have all seen combat in Afghanistan. Some have died. Pissing on that is pretty disrespectful, IMO.

PD

Inferiority complex my foot. Rabid Anit-Americanism equally so. Have you ever considered that maybe poeple tend to dislike America nowadays not because it is America per se but simply because what you do is sometimes against everything Millions of British, French Soviets and Americans died for just about 70 years ago? Or what we have learned since then? I am not against detaining criminals but if Germany started detaining people like you do in Guantanamo I have a strong suspicion that Washington would be the first to cry "NAZIS" and point their finger at us. Now if you do that we are all supposed to shut up as we are nto allowed to critizie the United States since the fight for Freedom (tm) ? Oh bloody hell....... :damn:

Um, did you read my earlier post? I acknowledged the people abroad who ARE fighting with the US.

Strawman. Maybe someone could do me a favor and find the post where I said everyone should "shut up" and fall in line. The Euro's have got the right to foam at the mouth over GWB. I have the right to an opinion about the foaminess, myself - I guess.

All the Euro's rhapsodizing about how the US used to be their idol are full of it. I read an interesting story about how some French observers acknowledged one of the recent D-Day anniversaries. How did they celebrate it? By focusing on the rapes that American soldiers had committed. Way to grasp the historical context, people!:up: BTW, feel free to erect another strawman about me hating all the French, etc etc. I can smell it coming. :sunny:

http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschl...en/551571.html

"We Are All Americans Now": Exhibit # 2 :D

I rest my case.


Edit: Seriously though, That is NOT an inferiority Complex. Germany starting to World Wars, thats an inferiority Complex. But we are past that, and that is something that some Americans don't understand. We have learned from two World Wars that alternate solutions are almost always the best.

Let me be the first person to say that I do NOT consider modern-day Germans at all responsible for what SOME of their forefathers did - if I did then there is no way that I would play this game. After all, it's not like the US has anything to boast about when it comes to violence & treatment of minorities. I get extremely angry with people when Germany comes up in the course of a conversation and five seconds later someone makes a stupid crack about the Nazis. I still remember when someone at my supposedly "tolerant" college did this in front of a visiting German professor. :nope:

When I speak of an inferiority complex I am referring to some of the more extreme "professional" anti-Americans. I am not referring to the anti-war movement as a whole because there are plenty of excellent reasons to oppose the war (and other aspects of US foreign policy).

Double post, but this does not fit into an edit.


What I also meant to say is that I admit there is some serious America Bashing going on here. But have you ever considered that we might be equally annoyed about the Euro bashing going on in the States simply because we didn't want to be drawn into any more military ****-ups?

Fair enough although IMO this war does not compare with prior conflicts in terms of bloodshed.

Nevertheless, that's right - every country has the right to decide whether or not it will participate in a conflict.

However, all I ask is for the people who flaunt their "loathing" for America not to be surprised when the "Amerikkkans" start to tune them out.:roll:

I never said you did.


BTW, there are no professional anti-americans here, and I still don't get wha critizizing American foreign policy in the press implies an inferiority complex. If we had one we'd be brownosing the States all the time.


EDIT: But then they have to live with the fact that we a) start nagging about them b) start laughing about them and c) at some point simply ingnore them.

2nd Edit: I need coffee.... *impersonates Zombie*