Do you run in the night because you sea somebody's pocket-torch in let's say 1500m distance? The Gulf has a square of 235.000 km2.

Active sonar can be countered by rubber tiling. I think every sub in the world has such coating now. Might be enough to defeat a dipping sonar or active sonobuoys.
Re MAD, you never heard of amagnetic steel?
HDW has been building antimagnetic subs for almost 50 years now (after a rough start), so I suppose Iran can at least construct a midget out of amagnetic steel.

Great, so now the minisub probably knows exactly where you are because you went active, meanwhile your active ping is bouncing back at you from all directions owing to the greatly varying contours of the gulf channel and the massively complex water make up that has huge differences in temperature gradient, density and salinity caused by everything from the rivers flowing into it, to the backwash through the Straits of Hormuz from the Gulf of Oman. Not to mention the fact that there may now also be a Shkval torpedo heading towards you at 250 knots. I'm sure US sub crews are gonna love that plan:rotfl:

:D Chock

average depth 100m
salinity 4%

Wikipedia said the very high salinity is reached because of the high condensation rate and the very minor water input into the gulf replacing it.

Yes, but that is the average, I mean sub skippers don't say, 'take us down to 100m chief, we'll not hit the bottom because that's the average depth here', do they?

Besides which, I think I'd take the word of several oceanographic surveys (including one in progress right now by HMS Echo) over wikipedia, especially if I was a sub skipper!

:D Chock

Let'S not make it difficult again and agree on that the Gulf is a very flat body of water. the water in the baltic sea inclduing Skagerag and Kattegat is only twice as big in square-size, but is given a water volume almost five times as high.

Funny thing is the the west german navy experimented with similar small subs in the 1960s. The dimensions are almost the same as the Ghadir class

http://www.luftsch%C3%83%C2%BCtz.de/...oad/Techel.jpghttp://www.modelluboot.de/KITS/Schue...chuerer2hr.jpg

Type 202
100 tons displacement, 23 meters, 2 torpedoes, amagnetic steel
Snorkel and closed cycle diesel engine and a silent electric engine for combat.
And a "huge sonar array", whatever that means for 1965.
The idea was to have small hunter-killer submarines swarming the baltic, up to 40 were to be build.
In the end, only two were constructed and named "Hans Techel" and "Friedrich Schürer". In the 1960s, the plan was still to name german combat submarines after fish and r&d submarines after submarine pioneers.
Hans Techel was the constructor of the UB class boats in WW1, similar small submarines.
However, Techel himself might have constructed a much better boat, as these two were rejected as "totally unsuitable" by the Bundesmarine.
I couldn't find what exactly was wrong with the 202, for the concept sounds interesting Apparently they were considered too cramped. U-Techel was in service for little over a year from 1965 to 1966, U-Schürer was scrapped after 8 months!
Due to the short service time, it is kind of hard even to find pictures of these two.
Above is a RC model of U-Schürer.
Below U-Schürer alongside a fast minesweeper, not exactly a huge ship itself.
http://www.heimatsammlung.de/motiv_u...huerer-526.jpg

lol i wish and the answer is yes for simulation we augment our own radiated noise lest the skimmers woudl never find us

Isn't that the general idea?

yes you correct but they require ASW training aswell so we go tit for tat some runs of the exercise were run without augmentation on and some with