I think your right about hitpoint damage. I beleive that game hanldes the hull/compartments, and internal components seperatly. IN SH3 for example if you wanted more things to repair, you had to lessen the armor factor and/or hitpoints on various stuff in the zones.cfg. Engines, diveplanes, or rudder for example. These can all get blown the crap, and still have your hull in good shape.

edit:
Also if one compartment is destroyed, the sub is sunk. As i recall this is how it worked in SH3, and is probable cause for the domino effect. If one compartment is destroyed, thats it, game over.

Yup. "hull integrity" from SH3 was a percentage of how many hit points were left on the hull. How deep you can dive is based on how many hitpoints you have. The greater the HP loss, the shallower your crush depth becomes, and the faster the rate at which your hull implodes.

By default some subs like sargo or salmon only have around 320 hitpoints or so. A gato has around 600. You cannot repair hitpoints at sea. Components yes, hitpoints on the hull no, and if one compartment gets destroyed, you go to davy jones.

It's interesting. I actually tend to be on the side of hugely increased hitpoints for ships---but still achievable. It would be possible to stress rivets, etc so that eventually things fail. the result should be mass flooding, not an explosion, however.

In terms of the subs, I think the hitpoint model makes a lot of sense. The hull gets crushed, and fractured, then depth crushes the weakened bits. Boom.

The real question becomes just how much AA fire could a sub take before becoming a wreck waiting to happen?

As Redwine, leo, werner, et al, have discovered, damage is amazigly complicated to mess with, and can possibly result in having to change damage values, not just damage models.

I already think the DCs are way too powerful, so a fix might also involve tweaking those down some. The end result that I want (just to throw it out there in the open) is a realistic gameplay. In RL, you read reports of surface actions, and a samapn might open up with a MG or 25mm, and the sub backs the heck off. They don't charge in. A surface unit, even a PT boat sized unit (a common ASW platform of the IJ Army, actually) with 25mm guns should be something that you might decide to engage, but it's not just "flank speed," BANG, BANG, BANG, BOOM.

tater

The individual compartments on Sargo have hitpoints, too. Only 200.

Not sure what caused the sinking.

tater

RE:DC's.
damage wise I think their spot on. The issue is the radius at which they apply damage.

The damage they do is a random number chosen between their min and max damage. This number from 0 meters, to their min damage radius (default is 4.5 meters) is applied 100%. From their min damage outward to their max damage radius (default 40 meters), its applied by diminishing returns. The closer you are to the explosion, the more damage it does. DC's explode at a random interval chosen between the depth the AI intended to set them and their depth percision. Default depth percision is 5 meters. So in stock, a DC will always explode plus or minus 5 meters of its intended depth. In Tmaru i changed it all to this:

- changed max damage radius from 40 to 15
- changed depth percision from 5 to 18
- changed explosion range from 40 to 50

Explosion range is the shockwave, does no damage, but rocks the boat.

what damage values did you use?

Stock. I think their fine. Realisticlly, one direct hit and you *should* be sleeping with the fishies.

Stock game, you can indeed be sunk by 25mm, same mission, 1 armed fishing boat, 1x small gunboat (all AAA variant), 1xmedium gunboat (all AAA). so messing with trhe damage in this over the top test scenario might not have given good results since I domino even in stock. My original tests vs 25mm (stock) was with just armed fishing boats, and single 25mm never did enough to damage me. get enough triple 25mm into the act, and I guess the hitpoints get creamed.

None the less, the crew don;t get damaged til the hitpoint start to go away, then they die fast.

Tested it out by firing at a life raft :lol: to see what impact the flak gun had. Didn't see anything happening but when I checked the kill board, it showed one sunk life raft.:hmm:

Here is part of Sargo's upc:
The hitpoints seem like a possible way to kill the gun, but I have a feeling it will cause the ship to flood. Crew exposure... I upped it to 9, and didn't see all that much change.

What about weapon or equipment exposure? Any ideas what those do?

Since getting the crew bithely standing on deck to die seems so very difficult, perhaps I can make the "payment" for risky behavior be to trash the guns.

tater

I just had a merchant blast away at me with small arms fire. Most of what I
heard was the ping of the shells hitting the hull. But then I got a message
saying "We're taking damage sir". That was strange. But when I went to
investigate, I see that the AA gun has 1/100 (taken 1 point of damage)
First time I ever saw any damage by small arms fire....

JIM

I hope this assists you some.

How Zones and 3D objects interact

The scenario…
We have 2 zones that are 20m long x 10m high x 3m deep which are directly behind each other and each zone can only be directly ‘hit’ from one side.

The armour value on Zone 1 is set to 50 so that no 4” shell, even at maximum HP will cause any damage.

The armour value on Zone 2 is set to 15 so that any hit from 4” shell, even a minimum HP will cause damage.

The blast radius for the 4” shell is set to Min 2m, Max 10m, the actual shell hit/s are HP 25 & Blast Radius of 10 metres.

The hits…
When the shell hits Zone 1 – The shell hits to Zone 1 result in no damage to Zone 1 or Zone 2 as the armour value had not been defeated.

When the shell hits Zone 2 – The shell hits to Zone 2 result in damage to Zone 2 as the armour has been defeated; BUT the armour only gets checked once and because Zone 2 is within the damage radius Zone 2 has now been damaged!

The same scenario occurs between the 3D object and the zone.

With the submarine’s armour value at 25, if a shell, in this case a 4” with an AP of 25 were to hit near by then in most instances this will result in damage being taken by the submarine and the nearby zone if the zone is less than 4 metres from the blast point.

RE: in most instances this will result in damage being taken; The reason I say this is because the AP value is dynamic but based upon the specified AP value.

The in game AP value is AP x PT + HPValue/ALF; The PT value is randomly generated and can be a + or – and from 0 up to the Zones.cfg specified value.

PT = Penetration Threshold=0.2 ; ALF = Armor Level Factor=4

The results of this mean that for the 4” AP shell with the AP value of 25 and a HP range of 10 to 25, then using the maximum PT values the armour that will be penetrated for each HP

HP ~ -2PT ~0PT ~+2PT
25 ~ 26.25 ~ 31.25 ~ 36.25
24 ~ 26.00 ~ 31.00 ~ 36.00
23 ~ 25.75 ~ 30.75 ~ 35.75
22 ~ 25.50 ~ 30.50 ~ 35.50
21 ~ 25.25 ~ 30.25 ~ 35.25
20 ~ 25.00 ~ 30.00 ~ 35.00
19 ~ 24.75 ~ 29.75 ~ 34.75
18 ~ 24.50 ~ 29.50 ~ 34.50
17 ~ 24.25 ~ 29.25 ~ 34.25
16 ~ 24.00 ~ 29.00 ~ 34.00
15 ~ 23.75 ~ 28.75 ~ 33.75
14 ~ 23.50 ~ 28.50 ~ 33.50
13 ~ 23.25 ~ 28.25 ~ 33.25
12 ~ 23.00 ~ 28.00 ~ 33.00
11 ~ 22.75 ~ 27.75 ~ 32.75
10 ~ 22.50 ~ 27.50 ~ 32.50

If we have the situation of a 3D object (armour value of 25) which has 2 Zones (armour level of 15) where Zone 1 is larger than the 3D object and Zone 2 is smaller than the 3D object then this is how, assuming that the blast radius is not large enough to reach the ‘other’ zone, that the damage would or would not occur.

If the 4” shell with the HP value of 10 and a PT of -2 hit Zone 1, then the zone and the 3D object would take damage. However if the 4” shell with the HP value of 10 and a PT of -2 hit the 3D object where Zone 2 is located then neither the 3D object or Zone 2 would be damaged.

If the 3D object was the conning tower and Zone 2 was the Zone/s TowerWatch and/or Flak then the crew would not be affected.

Some valuable info there Der Teddy Bar:up: