SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - So what did UBI get right?

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SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/index.php)

- Silent Hunter 4: Wolves of the Pacific (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=202)

- - So what did UBI get right? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116816)

clayton

06-15-07 01:18 PM

OK!

BTW, good topic.

John Channing

06-15-07 01:20 PM

The General and Clayton...

Please check your pms.

JCC

The General

06-15-07 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

This is from an old post by me, but it seems it needs repeating...

If you read the various posts by UbiSoft community managers nowhere does it state that people had to beg for anything What it said was that the people who make the financial decisions had to be convinced that a 3rd patch was required.

Now how could this be? How could they not know?

Well, given the level of irresponsible, jeuvenile comments that flooded the UbiSoft site (and here) post 1.0 release it was almost impossible to sort out what was a real bug, what was someone expecting it to be the same as Sh3, what was someone whinning because they didn't get the feature they wanted and what was a minor issue that could easily be modded by the community. Several of us here at Subsim worked for days to sort out a real bug list for the developers for 1.2 and believe me, it wasn't easy sorting out the wheat from the chaff.

PLUS...

If you go to the bug list that was prepared from the posts by this community pre 1.2 you will find that almost all of the issues that were so vitally important back then were indeed addressed by 1.2

So given the above it is completely understanable that, if your responsibility is the bottom line, then you might truly wonder if 1.3 is really necessary. But instead of just saying "That's it... shut 'er down", Ubisoft comes back to the community with 2 requests...

1) Convince us that there are real problems that need to be fixed and...

2) Give us a list of the top 10 remaining issues.

But insead of embracing this as an opportunity to really fix this game once and for all, the "community" does exactly what it always does... it went APE***T.

Boycottts, threats of lawsuits, stupid immature polls, name calling... all of the foolishness that caused UbiSoft to question whether 1.3 was really needed in the first place.

If it wasn't for Neal's efforts here and a few people on the UbiSoft site, I doubt that we would have seen a 1.3

So let's can the "made us beg" nonsense, and recognize that UbiSoft did exactly what we all want them to do... interact with the community, listen to the community and respond to our requests.

JCC

Hey John, there shouldn't have ever been a need for a 1.3 Patch. Besides, no patch is gonna fix what's wrong with SH4.

XLjedi

06-15-07 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

If you like moving the guys around, why would you want an easier way to move them between stations and damage control? :hmm:

Itsa fair question... I guess what I mean is, I liked how I could easily click stations, send some guys over to damage control and move folks around who were tired. I'd have to say the introduction of shifts was a plus. The loss of being able to bulk move folks quickly from station to station was a minus. I think there's also something in there that allows crew to become more proficient with specific tasks, which was a great idea... just no easy way to see that progression or take advantage of it that I can see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

I admit I would like it better if you assigned crew to damage control and they stayed at thier regular post till damage control teams were activated, but what I like about the SH4 crew management over SH3 is that you have 3 shifts now, and don't have to move them around to thier assigned workstations. I think this is better because I don't believe that it is the captain's responsibility to tell every one when it's bedtime. :p

True, true... yeah, what I was hoping for was some sorta right-click feature to put folks back in their shifts without me having to do it. It's like they did away with some of the micro-mgmt and introduced some new.

I'd also argue that (thankfully) the SH series is not intended to model sub ops strictly from a captains perspective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

Also the fact that the bridge watch officer goes to his station when we surface without me having to move him there is a big plus! :up:

At this point, I've been cheating a bit by adding extra crew to the damage control stations before I leave port. I say cheating, but if I don't know any better(I've never been in the Navy or a sub) it's not really cheating, so no-one tell me otherwise. ;)

You might be on to something there... Extra crew sounds like a good workaround to me. And they can put themselves to bed now soooo... :hmm: or wait a minute, does the crew assigned to DC sleep on their own?

kikn79

06-15-07 01:37 PM

I almost forgot!! I love how easy this game is to mod. (Thanks in no small part to the creator of JSGME and the Mini-Tweaker) You can create your experience however you want. From "Quake of the Pacific" to "RFB" it is definately a keeper!!

Also, *most* of the community here and at the UBI forums where we can engage in some intelligent conversation and give and receive help. Heck, if it wasn't for the whine boxes around here, (Maybe Neal should get some cheese to go along with it. :hmm: ) it would be absolute perfect!!!

Chuck

John Channing

06-15-07 01:43 PM

1) Playing on the Allied side

2) The challenge of the shallow Pacific

3) The variety of missions

4) The challenge of the "S" Boats

5) Being able to act like the Captain where the crew is concerned, and not the Cruise Director.

6) The damage model

7) The weather model

8) The incredible variety in Op-For AI

9) The most accurate representation of a TDC in Sub-Sim history.

10) The Challenge of doing all of the attack set-up personally.

11) SAMPANS!

12) The way if you take tooooooo long deck Gunning a merchant you are gonna have company, and you won't like it.

13) The way that the problems with torpedos, radar, and the TDC accurately reflect what actually happened, Whether this was intentional of not, it kicks this game into high gear for me.

14) The unpredictability of all of the AI... just like real life. Sometime the planes attack, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the Merchants see me and run, sometimes they don't. Just like it was in real life.

15) Working thermal layers.

16) Lifeboats and survivors.

17) REALLY HARD Recon missions. It's all about the challenge, boys. If it was easy we could get FPS players to do it!

18) Ports with traffic galore.

19) Your crew gets better with time and practice... just like youknowwhat.

20) Refit ports and Sub Tenders.

21) The Graphics are awesome...best yet.

22) Crews on the decks of the Op-For.

23) Friendly ships that I can practice tracking and set-up on while I am on patrol.

24) The variety of Comms from HQ. They give you a sense of being there in an actual war, and some of them are hilarious.

25) The interactivity with HQ. No more "Be More Aggresive"

I will add more later.

JCC

XLjedi

06-15-07 01:55 PM

Hmmmm... that actually sounds like a pretty good game. :hmm:

Focus too long and hard on the negatives and you lose sight of that...

TDK1044

06-15-07 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronblood

Hmmmm... that actually sounds like a pretty good game. :hmm:

Focus too long and hard on the negatives and you lose sight of that...

Exactly right. There are plenty of great things about Silent Hunter 4, and patch 1.3 and more mods will make this a really good game. The positives far outweigh the negatives.

GTHammer

06-15-07 02:33 PM

What a thread...I love me a good pissin' match. Oh and JC...Hell of a list man! :rock:

longam

06-15-07 02:35 PM

Sometimes I think living miserably becomes comfortable to the point where it feels normal, then most becomes a negative. But thank god I don’t see things in this nature everyday of my life.

On a lighter side, as said before the ability to mod this game without an SDK is great.

Soundman

06-15-07 02:49 PM

Although I have done my share of complaining myself, There are many good things about this sim and IMHO improvements that SH3 does not have.

Crew Management....I also do as someone stated earlier..I load up extra guys into the damage control area before leaving port. AND if you load in a few guys that have good experience or expertise in a certain area (it may cost you some renown), you can then move them into that particular compartment if you wish. This works really well, and as also stated (or asked) I don't know if this would be considered a cheat or not. Maybe someone could tell us. I mean, I'm not sure how many crew these boats could really hold. I found SH3's crew management to be annoying at times, constantly moving guys around. I prefer SH4's managment (or lack of) better.

As far as potential, I also believe if 1.3 is done right and same GWX mod folks go to work on SH4, it's gonna blow SH3 outta the water! My most favorite improvement has to be playing on the good ole USA side. I just had a hard time cheering for the Nazi side after sinking allied boats in SH3! You would have to wonder what some WWII vet's might think about it. Maybe I'm just too patriotic.

wetwarev7

06-15-07 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronblood

or wait a minute, does the crew assigned to DC sleep on their own?

From my experience, yes they do sleep and heal when not on duty. I noticed this on a patrol when I had them on duty for hours, and wondered if they would die before I reached port. I left the area, and checked a few days later, and they were well rested.

One thing I forgot - The sound travel option! It's cool when you see a deckgun hit the target and a few moments later hear the explosion. :up: I don't remember this being in SH3, and it has kind of spoiled me. I played Destroyer Command a couple of days ago, and the 'instant' sound travel really stood out.

AVGWarhawk

06-15-07 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronblood

Hmmmm... that actually sounds like a pretty good game. :hmm:

Focus too long and hard on the negatives and you lose sight of that...

Well, I was going to post the negatives because the list is so short it would have been much easier than what JCC has got:o. But yes, there is a laundry list of positives that overshadow the negatives by a long shot.:up:

crapgame

06-15-07 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

16) Lifeboats and survivors.

I would add too, the fact that when you get that perfect shot and split the ship in two there are no lifeboats or survivors. Even though its a simulation its kind of eerie.

aanker

06-15-07 07:02 PM

Before SH3 came out I remember posting in an an old forum feature request topic for the 'next' Silent Hunter. I wanted to return to the Pacific from SH II, was happy with SHCE but wanted some of the realism features Hawk gave us with his utilities/mods, fewer contacts than SH I, active port defenses including mines & nets, allied shipping... John Channing pretty much covered what I like about SH4 in his list above.

The Dev's pretty much 'got it'. I will be quite happy after patch 1.3 finishes this gem. (imperial units & radar)

Oh..... I don't think anyone mentioned the gramophone/radio. I like it!

SteamWake

06-15-07 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker

Before SH3 came out I remember posting in an an old forum feature request topic for the 'next' Silent Hunter. I wanted to return to the Pacific from SH II, !

Your voice was heard amongst many others.

Thats how we ended up in the pacific ;)

wetwarev7

06-16-07 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker

Oh..... I don't think anyone mentioned the gramophone/radio. I like it!

I cannot believe I forgot this! This is one of the top features for me that I like(radio). With that CBS news as it happens mod, it has opened up a whole new aspect of the war for me.

With the radio(and that mod) it is now a MUST to travel in and out of home port in real time, so we can all listen to the news. :up:

spock1898

06-16-07 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

4) The challenge of the "S" Boats

Agreed. There is a sick pleasure in taking out a DD with a "puny" S Boat, kind of like striking out Barry Bonds with a wiffle ball :rotfl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

20) Refit ports and Sub Tenders.

Have I missed something here? I have yet to encounter a tender, and I'm using 1.2, no mods. Someone please explain....

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

21) The Graphics are awesome...best yet.

Something needs to be said for this. Nowadays, we take good graphics for granted, but they aren't completely meaningless - like some previous posters on this topic would argue. If this game had all the great gameplay discussed heretofore but had a basic, pedantic, 2D interface, it just wouldn't be the same. Graphics aren't everything, but they're not worthless either. Great graphics make a bad game "less bad," but bad graphics make a great game mediocre, and SHIV just wouldn't be as much fun if the graphics and environment weren't so detailed and immersive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

24) The variety of Comms from HQ. They give you a sense of being there in an actual war, and some of them are hilarious.

Best so far: something to the extent of "Japan invades Java - coffee rationing begins tomorrow - just be glad they didn't invade Virginia."

Steel_Tomb

06-16-07 03:37 PM

Agreed, graphics have helped to make this game not only look amazing, but it increases immersion immensley. The only problem is game publishers/some devs (not pointing fingers here just in general) tend to think they can make a game look nice and expect it to cover the short falls in gameplay. Example of this: R6 vegas, lockdown...funny how they're both Ubi titles! ;)

Also agree with the radio traffic, its nice to here stuff like "Norway defies geography! Declares war on Japan" etc etc instead of... "Be more agressive!" or "Keep up the good work!". I know GWX added stuff into SHIII but its always the same and makes it feel like your reporting to some call centre in india instead of BDU lol.

Although I think Ubi made a big mistake in releasing this so prematurely, it has POTENTIAL. Whether or not Ubi will support the game until this potential is reached is another matter entirely! (although if the worst happened our modding community will do wonders over time:arrgh!:).

John Channing

06-16-07 05:46 PM

Quote:

20) Refit ports and Sub Tenders

Have I missed something here? I have yet to encounter a tender, and I'm using 1.2, no mods. Someone please explain....

Later on in the war you will see a Blue Anchor with stripes on it next to a port. That port has a Tender where you can get re-armed and re-fueled.

JCC

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