SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - A legend retires

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i don't think anyone really minds that the big teams like Ferrari etc hold sway at the top....the drawback is the unpassable gap between the big glamour teams with nearly unlimited resources and expertise..and the rest of the teams....quite frankly i wonder sometimes why given the expense they bother at all...the result is allways the same..they finish so far out of the running that they are nothing more than random traffic getting in every-ones way....back markers ....we kid ourselves that next season these teams will have introduced new tech that will bring them into contention, but we all know that so will very one else...it's no wonder the rules constantly get changed...no one wants to see the sport limited to an overly strict set of rules....but...short of limiting the teams to driving the exact same car ..it requires a bit of imagination..lest we end up with the class system on the race track....(ala Le Mans) which in efefct is what we actualy have right now...in effect.....the big teams race EACH OTHER...the lesser teams race EACH OTHER...the fact that this happens on the same track at the same time is mere co-incidence..saves having two or three seperate races...but the effect is the same...if it wasn't dangerous (and whose to say it wont become so if the performance gap gets too large) you may as well stage a GT car race at the same time and be done with it...LOL
now if they split the TV coverage so you could choose which team to follow thru the race then it might be interesting to watch...but sat there watching a ferrari or a renault battle for browny points gets dull

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Originally Posted by STEED

The King of Kings is going, leaving a great big hole in F1 and no one has got the guts and bloody determination as Michael Schumacher has. It's going to be a very long time before we see another driver of Schumacher's class.

The man was a relentless bastard, shying no means to achieve his goal. Great for a warrior, but in F1 sports it became a bit too much IMO. I'm kind of glad he is retiring, was getting a bit dull untill the latter seasons. I shall shed no tears by his depature. Never reached Senna to the socks.

Agree with you there Sky,

Also need to sack Max Mosely. there is rumour Jean Todt could become president of the GIA if and when Mosely steps down.

To bring back good racing they need to simplify the rules, also let them design cars that don't rely so much on aero for grip, that means bringing back full slick tires, and maybe flat bottomed cars. Speeds can be kept down by reducing HP.

The tubs though are so strong it is more likely they will survive a fast crash into the barriers, Senna wasn't killed by the impact but by a stearing rod in the head and then a wheel whacking him.

Also the cars should be designed so that a race can be completed on 1 tank of fuel, or just make the races shorter. I don't think with modern fuel cells that the safety concerns would be to great.

Maybe limit tyre stops to won per race, additional stops only if damages etc.

There is only one true art of driving a car to the driver's skill limits and hardware's limits anyway - Rally! :D Seeing it on TV makes my tongue rolling down to the ground what these guys are able to do with their planes. Ah, cars, I mean.

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Originally Posted by Lurchi

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Originally Posted by stabiz

He is without doubt a great, great driver, and he sometimes drove well beyond the the limits of the car, but ... also a crazy egosentric.

Egocentric? Of course, like almost all great champions, Senna (who is my all-time favourite driver) was not different. On the other hand Michael spends a lot of money for charity.

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... Schumi quit because Ferrari would not give him a indisputable Number 1 status after Kimi arrived (probably something Kimi made sure was in his contract, hehe).

I never heard of that and i don't see any reason why he should be afraid of Raikkonen. Kimi is a good but not an exceptional driver. In fact Schumacher beat all of his teammates, even former ex-Champions like Piquet when he started his career with Benetton and he fought against such great drivers as Hakkinen. Schumi quit because he is tired, won everything, his friends Todt and Brawn leave Ferrari too and because he wants to spend more time with his family, that's it.

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Anyway, I willl never forgive him for:
*Adelaide 94

Normal race accident - overstated incident because it decided the championship. Damon was silly to get in there. Hill would never have the slightest chance to fight for the championship without the harsh decisions against Schumacher which cost him 3 races.

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*Jerez 97

Yeah, this was Schumachers biggest mistake, idiotic and unfair.

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*Barrichello-gate in Austria (probably better to hang this one on Darth Todt and Sauron Brawn)

F1 is a team sport. Things like this happen all the time. Ferrari's main fault was that they did that in such a clumsy manner. The decision itself was reasonable. This is a business and Ferrari is a company with lots of employees whose lifes depend on the success of their F1 team. They do F1 to promote their cars and not for fun.

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*The awful "dead heat" finish on Indianapolis

It is not Schumachers problem if Michelin fails to deliver working tires. Shame on the other Teams who quit racing after the first lap.

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*The utter crap about starting under yellow flags on Monza (2003?)

Mmmh i can't remember that ... what happened there?

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*Monaco 06 qualifying

Probably another silly action by him, ok. On the other hand as an obvious Schumi hater :) you should be happy about that. Otherwise he would be probably in lead with a few points already.

All in all i would say there are not so many "dark spot" when i consider all those 15 years :up:.

And you are joking by saying Alonso fights more than Schumacher right? I mean Michael has made a very bad start into the season. Noone (including me) gave him a chance to fight for this year's title. But instead of complaining he worked hard and Ferrari improved considerably. This is one of his strengths - he NEVER gives up. Alonso is a great driver who almost makes no mistakes and who is -without doubt- quite a worthy champion. That Schumacher manages to keep the championship an open issue is an great feat and he also bet Raikkonen (he should be sooo afraid of) at Monza too. I think that Kimi will have his hands full by beating Massa next season ...

Many say that Schumacher only wins if he has the best car. I don't think so but one should also not forget that Ferrari was not the team it is now when he joined in 1996. His first two seasons were horrible with lots of breakdowns. The actual Ferrari teams is to some part his creation.

He could have taken the easy way by using his Mercedes connections and join McLaren which were the best team at that time. But no, he chose the difficult way and became a legend by doing so ... he is a great sportsman!

I am not talking about last years Indy race, but the one Schumi tried to cross the line "at the same time as Barrichello". Ridicolous, and the fans booed like hell.

Regarding Monza, I think it was because of 9/11, and Schumi proposed all drivers would maintain positions in the first corner. Thank God Villeneuve told him to stuff it.

How could you compare Schumis Monza-drive with Kimis? They are in different cars, you know that?

Schumi also has it contracted that he is numero uno as long as he is in Ferrari, Massa and Barrichello can vouch for this. (Barrichello has critizised Ferrari for this recently, by the way)

I bet this is what took them so long to finalise the driver lineup for 2007.

Schumi has never had a top driver as a teammate, so your comparison is weak. Of course Piquet was great, but he was clearly over the hill when he raced the german.

As for the rest? Herbert, Irvine, Salo, Massa and Barrichello? Not a top driver among them. (Barrichello is currently being thumped by Button, by the way)

Alonso:

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"He's been the most penalised and is the most unsporting driver in the history of Formula One," Alonso said in daily sports paper Marca on Tuesday.

Alonso even claimed that French football legend Zinedine Zidane, who capped his retirement from football with an audacious World Cup final headbutt on Italian rival Marco Materrazzi, had gone out with more glory.

"Despite his headbutt, Zidane even left with more glory," added Alonso.

In Saturday's qualifying Alonso was relegated from fifth to tenth on the grid for an infringement which Renault contested vehemently, and he then failed to finish the race on Sunday when his engine blew.

Alonso now only has races in China, Japan and Brazil, the season-ender on October 22, to defend his title against Schumacher.

The Spaniard did give his German rival some credit, however. "He's been the best driver in the sport, and competing against him has been an honour," said Alonso.

"The greater the success, the greater the envy." Simply that. Was Schumi a saint? No. Was he so much worse than others? No. Have their been others hitting and shooting guys of the track more often? Definitely. The question if it is intenion or not often is decided by a fan's preferences for this one driver and against that other driver (which has been very often in the many duels between Hill and Schumacher, the press in both countries making use of these duels and events to blow them up to a matter of almost war between British and Gemran people - nonsens).

There have been many occasions when Schumi needed to role up the field form behind, and battled with an inferior car, or was attacked and hunted by the pack. Alraedy before he joined ferrari. Plenty of opportunities that showed that it was not only about a good car, but about a driver's skills and nerves and mental endurance to see his success through. Personally, I do not like Schumacher, I do not find him sympathetic. But that has nothing to do with his capabilities. And as long as someone cannot rival these and cannot display that he has what it takes to do like Schumacher did, over such a long period of time, pulling out open bills and hand-picked examples of how bad Schumacher has been will classify for just one thing: being a bad looser even when the challenge is gone since long.

His many records (he holds almost all records you can imagine) speak for themselves. I am sure that now that his retreat is decided, he will take special motivation from that and that this championship also will be his'.

As for the other German F1 drivers, I feel sorry for them. They will always be compared to him, and necessarily fail to pass that comparison. they can't win this. Best thing would be if most drivers of the currently active generation would leave within the next 1-2 years and the complete field would be replaced with toally new ones, along with a new set of rules.

I will never forget the excitement of seeing Schumi drive in the rain - miraculous !

I will never forget the massive 'quiet' contributions Schumi has made to the Macmillan Cancer Relief charity.

Remember the best of a great man who strode over the scene like a Colossus for many years. Forget the rest !

A simple black & white world is much more pleasant to deal with, I guess.

:lol: Yep - I'm sure many here could write a full criticism of Schumi, particularly those like me who have been turned off the sport.

Verbal diarrhoe is not my style Stabiz - but please dont let my brevity deter those who wish to make Lillipution splurges ! :lol:

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Originally Posted by stabiz

How could you compare Schumis Monza-drive with Kimis? They are in different cars, you know that?

Really? Oh yes, he drives a McLaren which is a crappy car - so crappy that he was able to make the pole with it. And you forgot Schumachers strongest teammate, Martin Brundle but he bet them all. The Ferrari he drives now is partly his work, the team was not in good shape when he joined in '96. His number 1 status is well-earned but of no real importance because such a big team as Ferrari is able to provide the same material for both drivers. And your argument about Michael's teammates is also weak, because i can say the same: Barrichello is over the hill too.

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Originally Posted by Immacolata

Never reached Senna to the socks

Mmmmh, in the 94 season Michael did very very good against the much more experienced Senna until Imola. His Benetton with a V8 Ford was inferior to the Renault V10 in power but Schumacher was able to compensate this. Anyway, Senna is my all-time favourite driver and both Senna and Schumacher are very similar in their driving and character. Senna's death betrayed all fans of what could be one of the greatest duels on the racetrack.

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Originally Posted by Bellman

I will never forget the excitement of seeing Schumi drive in the rain - miraculous !

Oh yes, in Spa it was - from 16th place to victory, he walked over water. Another parallel with Ayrton Senna who was a great rain driver too. And yes, Schumacher is an egocentric about his sport but not when it comes to charity ...

Colossus magnitudinem suam servabit etiam si steterit in puteo. Seneca.