Long live the airforce of mice.

I will have to admit that there are quite a few Christians in this world who advocate the destruction of other peoples in the world...look at a perfect example in Pat Robertson's comments regarding Venezula's president and Katrina was punishment on New Orleans for being a seth pool. My favorite quote is Romans 3:23. For all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God. Yes, there is more before and after that verse, but it's a reminder to myself when I commit sin, whether thru obmission or submission, that I'm not alone in my sin. But, as the immediate verse states, "being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;"

As for certain christians proclaiming this is a sign...what about all the other "signs"; Katrina, Tsunami of Indonesia, multiple other incursions over the years by Israel, etc, etc...My faith in God doesn't change with what's going on in the world.

Does any country have the right to defend itself from being attacked by another force, whether it be terrorist or an actual government state...that should be a no brainer. As said earlier in this thread, if the world was based on attacking for "feeling" threatened, the world would've ended at least three different times over the span of 50 years off the top of my head.

I've learned the compassion factor and as Skybird can attest, I've calmed down over the years regarding different views. Everyone has the right to their opinion and the blog/forum mentality is a perfect example of it being voiced. It's what people do with their opinions that get's them in trouble. There have been so many personal attacks in this some-what calm forum that it makes me sick sometimes.

Get's down from the soap box.

[quote=P_Funk] How do you differntiate between a Hezbollah rocket in haifa on a train station and an israeli Air Strike in Beirut on an apartment building? Israel is terrorizing the Lebanese. [quote]

Israel dropped leaflets telling the civilians to leave Hizbullah strongholds, Hizbullah simply launches rockets at population centers when there is a number of choice military targets nearby they could've shot at. Oh, and how exactly are you going to explain that hizbullah was able to succesfully strike a miliary vessel when Hizbullah has no radar stations of their own? My answer: LEBANESE ARMY!!!

Israel isn't terrorizing the Lebanese, they are punishing them for allowing the situation to come to where it is. When this is over Lebanon will remember what she failed to do, and I hope this will not need to be done again.

Israel invaded Lebanon to stop Hizbullah, it was a long and drawn out failure. When Lebanon complained, and the U.N. passed a resolution for Israel to leave, Israel complied. As a "reward" the U.N. passed resolution 1559 which required Hizbullah to disarm and for the Lebanese to re-assert their own military authority along the border. None of the requirements of U.N. resolution 1559 has been accomplished. So whose fault is it now? The U.N.? The Lebanese? The terrorists of Hizbullah? All three are guilty.

And since then, Hizbullah has stockpiled weapons and rockets, and now is launching them against Israeli civilians. Israel should've struck when Hizbullah wasn't as strong in the area, but then again, everybody would complain about it. God forbid that Israel should want to defend her citizens and soldiers from blood-thirsty Islamists bent on world domination.

"Where are the Muslim posts on this board preaching the hate and advocating the killing and wanton slaughter that so many Holier-than-thou Jews and Christians here spout daily? Nowhere to be seen."

I haven't seen Osama post on this board yet, I'll see if I can get him invited, but of course he may be one out several million who know what a computer looks like while all the rest are carrying rifles in the field or are in the process of launching rockets or are busy learning how to fly airplanes.

Oh and btw, when you lose friends and comrades to gruesome death and torture, and see that an entire people celebrates when they murder masses of civilians it is a massive understatement to say that it irritates me when I see them doing that. When that occurs, I question their right to exist when all they are looking forward to is the extermination of an entire nation.

Along those lines, WHY in the world would Hamas kidnap a soldier after they had achieved their so-called goal of pushing all the Jews out of the Gaza Strip and most of the west Bank? Nothing was keeping them or holding them back from laying down their weapons and attempting to establish a government and begin living normal lives. Do you approve of their actions? DO you approve of the actions of an entity that has achieved their goal but still fights on with no apparent provocation? What these people want is for Israel to go away.

If the Arabs would lay down their arms, there would be peace. If Israel lay down her arms, there would be no more Israel.

"The peace process was looking promising with palestine for a while. Guess who ended it? Israel."

That is an outright lie. Who kidnapped soldiers first? Who declared war first with sneak attacks, suicide bombers, and executions?

If such a thing were true then I apologize for the following:

Jewish pogroms against Arabs
All Arab airlines hijacked and passengers executed by Jews
All Arab athletes executed during the 1972 Olympics
All Arab parlors destroyed by Jewish suicide bombers
All Arab civlians killed outright by jewish militants
For declaring war against Arab states and then proceeding to massacre their civilian population as they fled in terror

Try reading this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_terrorism

Or try reading any of the other articles I posted earlier. We didn't start this godforsaken war. But by all appropriate means we are going to end it. The sooner the better.

And just in case you didn't have the time to get around to reading it I'll quote this little bit of it:

"
Why do Arabs reject the State of Israel?



http://www.photo.net/photo/pcd4894/c...israel-9.1.jpg In the Web age it isn't necessary to speculate on why the Arabs reject Israel. We can simply read what they've written on the subject. Let's start with Article 22 of the Palestinian National Charter [Covenant]:

Zionism is a political movement organically associated with international imperialism and antagonistic to all action for liberation and to progressive movements in the world. It is racist and fanatic in its nature, aggressive, expansionist, and colonial in its aims, and fascist in its methods. Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism placed strategically in the midst of the Arab homeland to combat the hopes of the Arab nation for liberation, unity, and progress. Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world. Since the liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence and will contribute to the establishment of peace in the Middle East, the Palestinian people look for the support of all the progressive and peaceful forces and urge them all, irrespective of their affiliations and beliefs, to offer the Palestinian people all aid and support in their just struggle for the liberation of their homeland.

Note that this is essentially the governing constitution for the Palestine National Authority, amendable only by a two-thirds vote of the Palestinian Congress. Not all Arab nations call for the destruction of Israel in their constitutions and yet most Arab countries have maintained a continuous declared state of war with Israel since 1948. To understand this 55-year-long war it therefore becomes necessary to engage in a bit of analysis.

Israel occupies 20,330 square kilometers of land or roughly 0.23 percent of nearby Arab territory (see table at the end of the this article). This percentage would be slightly larger if we excluded Iran, which is technically non-Arab but which has been at the forefront of the fight against Israel by training, financing, and arming Palestinians. This percentage would be much lower if we included the Arab states of North Africa such as Libya, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, etc. To put this into perspective, 0.23 percent of the Lower 48 United States is roughly equal to the southeastern corner of Florida (about 1/8th of the state).
In some sense the State of Israel represents a tremendous achievement for the Arab countries. In exchange for a fraction of one percent of their territory they managed to expropriate the property of their Jewish citizens (estimated at between $13 and $30 billion in 1950 dollars) and expel approximately 870,000 Jews from their territories. Without incurring any of the bad publicity that afflicted Hitler, the Arabs managed to accomplish one of Nazi Germany's primary goals: creating a vast empire that was free of Jews. For the first time in 2500 years an Arab could walk down the streets of Baghdad without encountering a Jew. Morocco and Algeria rid themselves of hundreds of thousands of Jews. As impressive an achievement as concentrating the Jews from all the Arab countries into a tiny corner of the Arab world is, it would be yet more impressive to dump the Jews off somewhere in Christian territory, or perhaps to kill them all. This then becomes the challenge facing the modern Arab political leader. "

you suffer from the one sided, self righteous, deluded view that inflicts all who think they are are god's chosen...

whether it be pat roberts, muslim extremists, or jewish extremists... whether it be charles manson, jim jones, or any other self proclaimed son of god sitting at his right hand... you all have one thing in common...

... your lack of compasion for human life.

you find it so easy to chalk em up as being collateral damage... and that's where all who think like you are wrong...


--Mike

Spoken like a true Anti-Semite.

It is so convenient for you to ignore the truth and cry "the pain, the misery we suffer, it isn't our fault."

We are at war. And we have done an admirable job of keeping civilian casualties low. The problem being that we're fighting an enemy that has no morals, and so they hide in the civlian population of a foreign nation while they continue to hammer away at our civlilians. What did you expect us to do? Give up more land? Wait a little longer until only a fragment of what was once a nation remains. Unable to exert themselves or raise their voice for fear of being criticized in their drive for survival, or worse, exterminated at will?

Why don't you stop hiding it. Go ahead and say it. You hate us and you hate us for the sole reason that we exist. We're "Christ killers." And baby eaters, we use christian/arab blood in our passover meals. We actually engineered the holocaust but it was really arabs that we killed. Oh yes, we're the ones who really engineered the attacks on 9/11 and we're actually funneling Jewish terrorists into Iraq to stir up unrest and kill American soldiers. Oh yes, we did it all. We control all the oil and we control the economy of the world, we're in the money but we cant seem able to stand up to the criticism of the United States or the EU. I guess I'll have to correct that the next time the paper runs something involving them and do a little "editing."

But nevermind the fact that while our nation is under great strain we also take pride in having an emergency response team ready to assist with the humanitarian aid of nation in need. And that we take no value in human life, not even the life of one of our soldiers who has been captured by terrorists. No way in hell will we put our lives on the line to get him back. We're carefree, rotten, and just plain evil.

http://www.jafi.org.il/education/actual/tsunami/1.html

http://www.byegm.gov.tr/YAYINLARIMIZ...9/99X09X03.HTM

http://www.greekembassy.org/Embassy/...7&article=4675

Are these things that you believe or is there some reason that we have no right to defend ourselves and our citizens just as every other nation does? Take Turkey for example. Her soldiers and civilians are being attacked by Kurdish Guerillas and they are threatening to attack Kurdish camps in northern Iraq. When they start bombing camps and sending in troops are you going to sit by and watch the show while cheering them on for defending their home or are you going to criticize them too? Are you going to tell them that they shouldn't fight back, and just calmly allow someone to tear off their arms?

I don't delude myself with the simple-minded thought of being "Chosen" regurgitating and re-digesting that one single thought in an endless cycle. We've never viewed ourselves as superior or better than others (this train of thought is especially common among Anti-Semites). But we are obligated to follow a strict code of law and a way of life that has outlasted many empires and cultures. Where are the Assyrians and Babylonians? Where are the Persians and the Medes? Where are the Ancient Greeks and the Romans? Where is Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy? We have outlasted all of them and I should think that is an accomplishment to be proud of.

But I don't recall that we claimed to be the "Master Race." But one thing I do recall is that we have an incredible value for human life, and even animal life as well. We were the first nation to give women rights. We were the first nation to establish a code of laws that almost ALL other nations now see as something desirable (talking the 10 commandments here). And exactly what is there to be seen as cruel as: Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not lie (either to yourself or your neighbhor), and honor your parents?

How many children do you see honoring their parents and obeying them even if they didn't agree with what their parents said? How many liars do you know? How many people do you think are liars? Don't you appreciate the fact that we also forbid people to wantonly murder,, steal, and rape at will?

Nope, we have no compassion at all for human life.

Gods chosen? Hardly. I believe in the concept of a divine being, but I certainly don't feel that "God is on *my* side" or anyone elses for that matter, and that makes the rest of your little straw man post irrelevant.

BTW are you really trying to compare me to Charles Manson? :roll:


Now that's a sign of a desperate argument... What's next? "I'm teh h1tlrz"?

Yahoshua... or whatever you call yourself... i was wondering exactly when one of you was gonna say something exactly like that... i thought it would be August, but you've just shown that you can be even stupider than he is...

... soooo typical of you religious fanatics.

that's always your first response... just like your counterpart muslim fanatics, you jewish fanatics see everyone who doesn't wear a yamaka as an anti-semite... soooo, now the true face of your hate reveals itself...

the true face of your predjudices... the true face of your fears and insecurity...

Anti semite... hahahahahaaa i wonder what my Jewish friends would have to say about this one... i must show this to them, immmediately... and i'm not just talking about causal friends... these are people who have slept under my roof, shared meals at my table... bathed and showered under the same roof... whos children are adopted children of mine...

you could hardly realize what a foolish thing you just said...


ok Gizzmoe... now if that aint a personal attack, one without any basis.. then what is...


August... stop your whining, wouldya... your reaching for straws, seeing that you've got to go all the way back to the comment that included manson... why are a just getting to that... and, there were a few others mentioned in that post as well...

naahhhh, you just want someone to argue with... someone to drag down into the dark dankness that you call an existance...

not me... find someone else... i've already shown you for what you are... i need not continue a mindless debate any further...

--Mike

All the way back to this same thread page? Again: :roll:

You started this, not me. I'm not going to let you or anyone else mischaracterize me without a response, and while it's beginning to take an effort, i have remained civil, unlike you. So if you're really done with this mindless debate then follow your own advice and stop it.

Worse than a kindergarten... Thread closed.

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