There isn't a politically correct answer for that problem and you know it.

Still wondering, I see. You need it all on a silver plate brought to you, so that you can take it and throw it out of the window.

Stop propagating it, stop playing into it's hands and get the public informed about it's content, history and teachings by sources that are not under Islamic influence would be a good start!!! :up: ;) Get people start thinking and asking questions, instead of echoing empty phrases of those who want Islam, for whatever a reason, amnd embrace a conqueror for a mistaken understanding of tolerance or mutli-culti.

The rest then would come by itself. Enforcing colonists to fully integrate or to leave. Enforcing to give up any reservations to western values as the leading cultures in the West, and make acdcepting them legally binding, by threat of removing zhem if they don't. Sending them back if they violate our value system and legal rules, instead of endlessly keeping them here and "assist" them to do better next time, which in most cases they don't since they are pushing their own clture instead. Changing constitutions that way that Islam cannot claim protection of free practice of religion anymore - because in reality it pushes in fact a political agenda aiming at the destruction of these constitutional orders. Demanding Muslims to unconditionally surrender to local traditions, laws, education goals, school systems, cultural values and habits if they want to live in our middle (I mean, no one forces them to come here, and they also have no right to demand they should be accepted here if we do not want them: it's our homes, not theirs.). When they do not want to become one of us, but want to keep for themselves, why the ehll are they co,ming to us, then? Stop further Muslim immigration in general. Reject paying ongoing financial support that in return is spend by them to further increase Muslim networks in Europe that are designed to strnegthen Islam in Eurpe and overcome christzian and Wetsern order. Bannig Sharia completely, unconditionally. Monitoring mosques. Encourage leaving Europe. Discourage coming to Europe. Stop playing soft on the deceptions of history that Islam is used to. Confront "moderates" directly with the contradictions of wanting to be Muslims but claiming to already refuse certain values of it. And so on, and so on.

Don't try removing regimes in Muslim countries that are strong enough to fight against Islam clerics coming to power. Stop wanting to democratize such countries -and by that creating the free space the clerics need to come to power, like is happening in Egypt, has happened again in Iran, and in a way also in Turkey, and obviously: Iraq. confronting all Muslim countries over the tens of thousands of Christians and Jews that get killed in their realms every year, according to the secret service of the Vatican (almost all Muslims countries are affected by this by varying degrees). Sanction all countries that do not actively and with all strength engage in stopping the murdering of christians and priests in their countries. Implement the principle of reciprocity: do not treat islam in the West any better than foreign cultures are treated in Muslim countries. If they do continue with the centuries-old ethnic cleansing (and that it is, nothing else), then drive Muslim populations in Europe out as well. Do them like they do us.

All this will not happen too well, since Islam cannot tolerate any of these demands without giving up itself and it's mission: gaining control about all world and all mankind. That's no phobia, that is theological and political fact. It's a predatory ideology, formed by a predatory bandit, in a war-torn environment, never forget that.

And of course: getting independent from Muslim oil within a reasonable timeframe. that should have been a priority since the oil ciriss int he early 70s. Stopping weapon and technology transfers into Muslims countries. Stop political classes that do not actively engage in this, or even want to prevent it.

In brief summary - you'll hate it, since you have too many illusions abou the reasonability and kindliness of islam and do not understand the true nature of our enemy. ;) You think of Islam as somehting like ourselves, just Muslim instead of western. And that is your grwta mistake, coming from your tendency to level out differences and make it appear to be on same level and of same worth and value. Hitler admired Muhammad for his ruthlessness and unscrupulousness, he is quoted like that by historians. That should tell you something.

In principle, since democracy and Western value-canon, and Islam are totally incompatible, it is about Islam in the West not longer being Islam.
But I am sorry that I cannot explain why I want all these things happening, and nothing less. that way it all must appear to you as very intolerant and racist and nationalistic. But that is because a deficit on your side, not on mine.

You got your will fulfilled, and for the second time although you refuse to accept that, now get what is more important - get some books: history, Muhammad's historical biography and personality, Comments and comparisons of social community in Islam, politics, and theology, introduction to Quran and Hadith, Sira would not do any damage. History is the most important for you, since you said it yourself: judge them by their deeds, not their words. It's the greatest conquest by violence story ever.

I'm sure you hate almost everything I said here, and will clean it off the table as blind ignorrance, intolerant racism, stupid narrow-mindedness or whatever. And when I say that Islam is even more dnagerous than the Nazis were, you cannot underatand it. Becasue you still do not know Islam well enoiugh. The deficit is not on my side, or AL's, but yours. Your view on Islam, and Islam's reality, are incompatible, and lead you consequently to wrong assumptions about how to deal with it. It'S often done, but I agree on that: today's western policies on Islam are like chamberlains appeasemnt of Hitler. But Hitler just wanted a huge part of the world, and wanted to erase all Jews. Islam wants all world, and erase everyone that is not Muslim.

Nice summary of what I put into far more words. :yep: You certainly are more word-economical than I am. Maybe I am just too unstructured. :lol:

I find it funny that people think that Islamic militants are no big deal. Just let them blow up everything, right? To be naive and think they are no threat to ones person is to be an ostrich and bury ones head in the sand. Speakaing about naive, that has got to be the most naive statement ever posted on this board. It is written in their religious law that you are the infidel if you study any religion or no religion at all other than Islam. It is their duty to destroy you and in doing so, it will sucure a place for them in heaven beside Allah. One more thing, no matter how people want to twist it, Mohammed did not write his book, Allah did, and there is no room for interpretation. Period.

However - One must be wary about the focus on these militants however since they could never pose anywhere near as much of a threat as a state could. Iran, NK, and especially China.

-S

I didn't say it had to be politically correct, only that it had to be effective. And as to what I "know", I already have in mind a solution that has been endrsed by those leftist over at the Economist- so its a little presumptuous to presume what I do and do not know, not that this has ever stopped anyone here before.

Then please share it with us. I sure as hell can't think of a politically correct solution. And yes it does have to be politically correct in order for it to be used. If you have a solution why haven't you voiced it long ago?
That is what makes me a little presumptuous.

Yeah, there is a slight difference in the average length of comments. :D

Because I've suspected that the Islamophobe crowd here is long on rhetoric and short on solutions, but I wanted to give them a chance to prove me wrong first. This is a lengthy article with mixed messages I find, in that they don't make any attempt to varnish the truth and nor do they resort to the one sided, often distorted, hysteria that is the norm for Jihadwatch and its ilk. Also they don't offer anything cut and dried, but it is food for thought and nothing radical:

Anyway the link to it: http://www.economist.com/world/displ...ory_id=7081343

Last night we watched Albert Finney portraying Winston Churchill in "The Gathering Storm."

I couldn't help but imagine Scandium's soulmates as the members of Baldwin's Conservative Party, howling with laughter and taunting Churchill from the benches, as Churchill warned Britain with great accuracy what was to be their fate, should they continue to disregard the blatant signs of Nazi Germany's plans and intent of conquest.

History repeats itself.

Yada, yada, yada!

Here's another Islamophobe: Omar Bakri. And he says nothing new, that hasn't been said by numerous Islamic preachers world-wide:

nuff said really---

Bad link, scandium. And stop calling us hysterics. you are not competent to judge if we are, or not. So far all you have shown us about your understanding of Islam is the many fantasies you have on your mind, the kind of follies already Goethe and Lessing have fallen for, violating hard solid facts about Islam's theology and history whom you are not aware of, and in active ignoration of. Wanting to raise an educated opinion on that basis qualifies you to be a fool only - no matter how clever you see yourself.

And give us a working link, not your pathetic answer to Brad of how clever the Economist is. Let us judge that ourselves. I already can imagine what it is about, but to put it into your own words: "I give you a chance to prove me wrong first."

Come on, prove us wrong. On the basis of solid facts about Islam'S self-understanding and self-description. Should be easy for you, since you claim to be cometent to judge what is the right and what is the wrong way to approach it, and what is too radical a solution, and what is an unbiased one.

The link is working fine for me.

Skybird's point of the link's article being irrelevant to fact that you have yet to counter anything anyone here has claimed about Islam, solely based on Islam's own scriptures, interpretations and history is working fine for me.

What the heck! Here's another link, again with some astounding from-the-source quotes but mostly not from Muslims:

“Let Them Eat Kebab” — The New Marie Antoinettes.

So long, Europe. But, of course, Canada is safe. :yep:

I said a few days ago, that to put an end to these endless circular discussions - for now at least- that I'm content to, purely for the sake of arguement, or as a moratorium on it, accept all of your claims as to the dangers of Islam provided you can suggest any realistic method of meeting the alleged threat it poses.

Note that I'm not interested in how politically correct the solution is, only as to whether one exists, and whether you're willing to offer it.

Yet still you insist on arguing for the sake of arguement rather than putting forward something constructive.