That is a bit harsh IMO. If you believe that then you believe that a sequel cannot surpass it's predecessor. Surely we all believe that games can and usually do get better. Was SH3 not an improvement over SH2? I am sure that SH3 is not the "It can't get any better" mark.

I don't think it's harsh at all. It's not impossible that SH4 will be feature rich and bug free, I just don't think there's any evidence for believing so. How many other games have 4 patches that don't fix anything? A game's budget is finite and when you allocate resources in one area you have to take away from somewhere else. More resources spent on eye candy means less available for the core simulation and quality control, and Ubi has already shown a massive failure to address the latter.

As for SH3 being better . . . how many people on these forums say that AoTD or Silent Service was actually a better simulation? Great graphics visuals impress at first but lose their appeal quickly when the gameplay has shortcomings.

Oh I agree completely with that post.

However, what I said was harsh and did not agree with was when you said that, since SH3 was not able to deliver realistic systems and a 3D environment, SH4 will not be able to. It was that comment alone I disagreed with, you never said anything about bugs in the portion of the post I quoted ;)

I will state catigorically, I expect SH4 to be delayed, and full of bugs when it does arrive. I also expect that the modders will have to put it right again. I am just having faith that some things the modders cannot do due to engine limits will be achieveable. I am also keeping in mind that "Ubi" is not the same set of guys that make every game.. there will be fresh blood on the SH4 team, I am just not saying any definite "If they couldn't do it in SH3 they won't be able to in SH4" as you have done, to me that seems absurd.

I don't exactly have an Alienware PC, far from it. Yet I managed to run SH3 with just a few minor probs such as slowdown in ports...but for all the rest, fine.

Not only do I want 3d crew, I want the ability to interact with them. If Fritz has been good, I would like to give him a pat on the back...if he's been bad, I would like the ability to spank him. Is that asking too much??!!! :stare:

Sorry, mate, the fish aren't biting. Scroll up and read Gizzmoe's comments and my response....

It was just an attempt at humour. You really think I want a crew I can spank when they don't follow orders?
Now...a female crew...hmmm....actually...could have a hand you control like in Black & White...:lol:

Did you ever stop to think that there are alternate explanations for that sentiment, such as :

- Don't want the clutter of extra visuals...
- Would rather the developer concentrate on the sim engine, physics, gameplay, AI, and other elements of the game that concentrate on tactical realism instead of creating a role-playing game...
- also have respectable rigs that run SHIII-style graphics just fine, thank you...

TG

Tillmy, if that's the case....why stop there? Make it like Dangerous Waters where you only see the instruments of the station you are in.

What you're suggesting is a different game. What makes SH3 so special is the making you believe you are there factor. Immersion...you know, all that? The game engine is done, yes? So why can't they spend time on making the 3d crew AND physics, gameplay etc.

I want to see the crews beards get longer and their clothes and hair more shabby the longer you stay at sea...and I'm not joking this time. :up:

The crew is nice to see, but if it comes to a trade off between graphics and real simulation, I'll take reality every time. I would sooner have fine control of my boat, with the ability to individually control engines and motors, ballast and trim tanks, venting air inboard or outboard, plus better damage effects, like sea water in the batteries producing chlorine gas, than an exec with a growing beard.

Also, you need to mix shale oil with diesel to get the right smell, keep a small cup of diesel and shale in your bread bin to give your bread that lovely rainbow colour too.

Not really. I like to be able to cruise around compartments, and actually don't mind seeing the crewmen at their stations. What I don't want is to have the developers waste time on creating "The Sims - U-Boat Edition" when they should be concentrating on tactical realism. I don't give a squat about interacting with an unshaven crewmember when - for example, and I'm not citing any particular bugs that I'm aware of in SHIII - my weapons are buggy, the AI is incompetent, the TDC isn't modeled correctly, etc...

It's nice to live in a fantasy world in which the developers aren't constrained by development deadlines, publishers' deadlines, and financial restrictions and business models, isn't it!

TG

I would a whole lot rather the devs spent their 3D energies on a more complete and authentic rendering of harbors and shipyards than on crew. I would rather pass under the Golden Gate Bridge on my way to Mare Island for a refit and see people waving from their cars; I would rather sail into Pearl Harbor, past the wreck of the Arizona, and the salvage operations underway on the California, or cutting through the bottom of Oklahoma's hull to reach the trapped survivors, or repairs being made in the drydocks, or other submarines tied up at the tenders, or a couple of Hellcat jockeys wagging their wings as they pass overhead on training flights, or trains and trucks and freighters delivering and picking up millions of tons of supplies, or any one of a thousand other things that go on around navy yards.

I'd never get tired of watching those things, even knowing they were on animated loops, because I wouldn't see them every gamed day; it would be a refreshing change of scenery after weeks of water water everywhere - same reason SH3 kaleuns never seem to get tired of going to New York City. It's different. Crew, on the other hand, I would see constantly and very soon it would lose all of this mystique so many people seem to think it has. Just as in SH3 poor ol' Bernard can't get any respect anymore (did he ever have any?)

Mate, don't mock my want of realism when you're talking about "...sea water in the batteries producing chlorine gas.." :doh: And what are we meant to do if that happens? Hold our breath? To be honest...ballast tanks and trim tanks and inner and outer venting will put a lot of people off, and I for one can do without them. I wouldn't mind a controllable anchor though.

58 rivets in the upper bulkhead, is it? ;)

Nice ! Never heard that idea. probably kind of useless in a subsim, but still a nice idea.

Drebbel

PS: Please remember that all people using the LazyBlue theme can not read the stuff you wrote in yellow, that theme has a light back ground colour, so if one wants those people to be able to read the text refrain from using light colour coding.

Thanks for the warning about the yellow...didn't know.

Drebbel, the anchor would've been useful for anyone who docks at the end of a patrol. Many a time I've tried to steer my u-boat into the berth in bad weather, only to scrape along the side and finish the patrol with damage. If I could drop my anchor, it would'nt have happened.

And you think white is any better, ok, a litle bit. But still bad enough to skip text written like that :D