Yes. Up to ~60%...

My friend Redwine. You are welcome :sunny:

I was waiting for this question (from you I mean). But I didn't know when.

This is going to be a long and enjoyable discussion. But we have to wait until tommorow...(so many mods, so little time).

I am sure that you know that there are 5 definitions of "mile" - mile (statute), mile(intnl.), mile (nautical), nautical mile (UK), nautical mile (intnl.)

Keep up the good questions.

And one question from me, to keep you busy until tommorow:
Which kind of miles does uboat.net refers to underwater speeds? :cool:

Thanks, Stiebler. The mod (NASA fix) might need a little more fine tuning. I'll re-check some things next weekend and make a new version if required. Probably I am around +/- 5% of the final ranges.

Does the .exe file you posted include the whole .sim file of the XXI or just a range fix? I am asking, because it contained the XXI battery fix (concept by Ducimus), which allows the battery to be charged to 100% and switch automatically to "cruise" mode from "battery charging" mode.

Which are the differences between the RuB and NYGM .sim files?

Von Helsching asked:
The .exe file I posted is just a range fix. Nothing else.

It has become clear that there are no differences between the RUb and NYGM .sim files. However, I could not be sure of that at the time of posting.

Teddy Bar said:
Many thanks, my friend.

Stiebler.

Hi VonHelsching, thanks for response.

That is the first question we need to do, in Unterseeboowaffe site, they put into the sub performance...they are statute miles.

http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/ubootw/welcom.htm

The matter is i cant understand this ..... when we adjust 80 miles, asuming they are correct into submerged range......

What the program do ?

What is the error you discovered ?

The program take those 80 directly as km ?

The program take those 80 as nm instead sm and convert an exesive value into km ?

Thanks a lot for help and effort :up:

I checked it myself, just in case someone using the NYGM Tonnage War would prefer to use a JSGME compatible mod, rather than an .exe (which makes some people nervous, including myself - excl. SH3Gen, SH3Cdr and SH3 weather, for which there is no alternative).

There are differences between the .sim files of RuB and NYGM Tonnage War. The "torpedo" section is different for all uboats.

If someone using the new NYGM Modpack would prefer a special version of the NASA fix, I would be more than happy to produce it tonight - it's about 15 minutes of work -

My friend, Redwine,

What fine photos and wonderful information are in the site you posted!

And, yes I used statute miles myself. For a strange reason, both references are in statute, rather than nautical miles. It this proves to be correct (eg. from a reference from the Kaleun's manual), I have no clue why the Germans seemed to use statute miles. Maybe because the English were using nautical miles (UK) :-j


1) Redwine: What the program do ?

The Real Battery Life / Advanced NASA Battery Fix a) corrects the underwater ranges in all uboat .sim files. b) Fixes the XXI battery (for those who havn't done it already) c) Fixes the surface range of the IXD/2 (for those who havn't done it already)

The Real Battery Life for RuB does a) and b) above.
The surface range if the IXD/2 in RuB 1.45 is already corrected to 31500 @ 10 knots. (as per the Unterseeboowaffe site) vs. the 23700 @ 12 knots of the www.uboat.net.


2) Redwine: What is the error you discovered ?

The underwater ranges in the .sim files are supposed to be statute miles, but they're not. I'll call them "ubi-pseudo-units". Then SH3 mutiplies them with 1,6 to convert them "again" to statute miles.

So the underwater range of the IID in the .sim files (in "ubi-pseudo-units") is now ~36. The game muliplies this by 1,6 and you now get ~57 (reference range is 56)

Bear in mind every test gets a different result (+/- 5%) due to weather conditions, crew ability, depth (?)

3) Redwine: The program take those 80 directly as km ?

No. The 80 (ubi-pseudo-units) are what the Devs thought it was kilometers, later converted to miles. (To be later again measured by the ruler, which is in kilometers :-j ). See 2)

4) The program take those 80 as nm instead sm and convert an exesive value into km ?

No. See 2) and 3)

I hope it is clearer now.

I would like to do some tests again with the VII series, since for them another strange conversion factor is used (the worst errors are non-systematic). I'll figure this out eventually.

Redwine, now that I'm thinking of it, also the surface ranges might also be wrong (using the same logic). But this needs a lot of testing time (plus some navigations experts); and probably a different map. :doh:

Von Helsching said:
Point 1 - nervous users. Yes, I'm one of them. However SH3Battery Mod is closely related (in coding terms) to the popular "Radar_Detection.exe", which I also wrote. No complaints yet about either program. However, I sympathise completely with your view.

Point 2 - it seems I have made an error, so it's just as well if people do use SH3Battery Mod, which can't make the same error.
Strange, though, my beta-test files for NYGM never once contained any NSSUboatxx.sim file - and NYGM is overlaid onto RUb. There must have been a late change. Perhaps you have an earlier version of RUb.

Stiebler.

I've checked the RUb 1.45 and NYGM Tonnage War NSS_Uboat7c.sim files, and I acknowledge that there is a difference in the torpedo sections. A new mod (from some source unknown to me, it wasn't part of the new work on NYGM) has evidently been installed over RUb by the NYGM compilers.

But this merely points up the importance of using the SH3Battery Mod to stamp over any .sim file. Most users - even me! - don't know exactly how our files have been modded by others.

Stiebler.

Yes...very nice site.


Yes it is extrange, because to navigate nm are the value used.
Any way there is no problem if this fact is well speciphied.

:88) I can believe ! may be diferent people putting their hands into the program.


I think so their original intemption was to input the values in sm and convert them into km, looking at the 1.6 factor..... but for some loss reason the program dont take them as km ...instead as miles. :hmm: may be difetrent people made partial parts of the program and the convertion method was loss into a mistake or misunderstand of any one....



Hard to test... or imposible.
In example... when you fly, you need to adjust the real nautical miles due to the head or tail wind.... if you have head wind, you real nautical miles will increase, instead, if you have tail wind, your real nautical miles will be reduced.

The same happens at sea with sea streams....... they can enlarge you geographical nautical miles o reduce them, i dont know if it is modellated in the game, but may be havy seas have influence into speed into fuel compsumption..... may be wind speed too.

The main problem is it is imposible to perform a long range surface navigation to a complete fuel out.....without dive, surface, dive, surface...dive.... due to enemy encounters.

:hmm:

It would be interesting to see what these (minute) changes in the torpedo section mean and what is their consequences in the NYGM gameplay wrt RuB gameplay. They should be subtle, though.

Just one remark: I have personally checked every field of the .sim files for stock / HT and RuB versions, so I wouldn't want for the users that are reading this thread to even think that is is not safe to use my mod. Just making it absolutely crystal clear.

I really think that the discussion should evolve around but miles, nautical miles, kilometers, slow death by CO2, destroyed batteries and advanced damage models, sulphuric acid smells etc. :rock:

Any reports for fellow Kaleuns that reduced their odds using the Advanced NASA Battery Fix?

Unterseeboowaffe site uses sm = sea miles(= 1852 meters), at least so it says at the bottom of each boat page. And when comparing their values with uboat.net they are the same, so uboat.net uses nautical miles too. I hope this confuses you further :-j

Wikipedia for the VIIB states: Range: surfaced 14,000 km (8700 mile) at 10 knot (19 km/h), submerged 150 km (94 mile) at 4 knot (7 km/h)

The division is 1,6, thus statute miles.

From http://www.uboatwar.net/VII.htm

VIIB: Speed: 17.2 -17.9kts/8kts (surfaced/submerged)
Range (nm/kts) 8,700/10 surfaced (combined diesel electric drive range 9,400nm@10kts); 90/4 submerged.

Clearly stated nautical miles


What is the true from both? Only a Kaleun's manual would give us definite answers

While searching for answers (i.e which to use statute or nautical),
I didn't find any conclusive answer...

In any case the difference in undewater ranges, if we use nautical mile is ~10% (less :-? , of course) from what is modded by the Advanced NASA Battery Fix. The business case of the fix was to bring up the difference of 60% (i.e between the kilometers and the mal modelled miles). Eventually, we can fine tune it further.

And BTW the term "sea mile" is not used anymore (Old UK term, which meant nautical mile). :damn:

Right now, I'm working on something else, so, expect some more suprises...

Maybe the wikipedia author has used his NASA calculator to make those conversions. Or maybe he forgot that there is nautical miles too :rotfl:

As I've pointed out elsewhere, it is exceedingly unwise to rely on information compiled in web-sites. They are mostly put together by semi-knowledgeable enthusiasts who have just uncritically collected as much information, from as many sources, as they can.

Use books, as a substitute for the original information. And make sure that the books draw on original information, and are not just a compilation of other people's books (you need to read the book, for this).

Older British compilations of U-boat ranges clearly use the term 'sea mile', as a substitute for the more modern 'nautical mile'. Since 'sea mile' is usually abbreviated to 'sm', there is clear scope for confusion with 'statute mile'. To the best of my knowledge (as a Britisher), 'statute mile' is only used for land maps, never for use at sea.

I have two central reference works, where the submerged range for the Type VIIB U-boat is stated explicitly as "90 sea-miles at 4 kts".

Stiebler.