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http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/757

"All the more sad then that the Vatican has followed the British Foreign Secretary in appeasing the critics of the publication of the cartoons."

Bah.

Does Britain leave other european nations, that defend the freedom of speech, alone, because it wants to appease Islam -> because it wants to keep the foolish illusion of Turkey beeing acceptable to become member of the EU, or that EU is not becoming too strong a political player by that membership? Or do they want to appease probably hostile reactions towards their troops in Iraq in advance? I find the official British reaction to this mess irritating at least, if not shameful.

The vatican'S reaction does not surprise me at all. It still wants to be in bed with Islam. Hallelujah.

The Danish consulate in Beirut, Lebanon, is in flames. :doh:

Its was a set of cartoons (12 images actually, you all saw them, they were posted on subsim too), they were not attacks on any person, country or religion. they were toons, laugh at them and get on with your life!

When you burn the national flag of a country you are asking for war! that is not fun at all, its not a toon!

Denmark has to get even with muslims for this,
if they dont they will loose this 'war' and the others will win and it wont be the last time they act like early primates.

It is not a wonder that more and more Danish and other 'white people' becomes racists, people should be shot dead for their actions towards Danish property and it's flag.

If you dont like whats printet in the newspaper DONT FRICKEN READ IT, if you are personally offended by the newspaper sue it, dont burn the flag of the country.

Disclaimer: No I am not a racist, and I don't hate all muslims or other ethnic groups of people but attack my flag and I'll hate you.

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Originally Posted by Skybird

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Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

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Originally Posted by CCIP

Well...

This has decidedly made my view more negative - it doesn't make me any less of a skeptic of the West, but decidedly more of a skeptic of the 'East' here. I hope this has similar effects on as many other people as possible.

Actually, this has not changed my opinion one bit, I already felt like you are beginning to feel. ;)

Not just since these days, but since one year, I saw myself in need to change a damn lot of my opinions that I held in earlier years for so long. To think how well-meaning I once thought of Islamic culture ten years ago and during my "time of travellings", and compare it to today makes me wonder if I am really the same person anymore.

I have ended my adventure time, I have a more indiffrent attitude to some things that in earlier years were important to me, and I do not pay so much attention anymore to what people think about me. I assume this culminated in an effect that equals that of stepping back from a big puzzle I was working on for years - and from theat greater perspective all the isolated details suddenly fell into their right places all by themselves, revealing the overall picture. Seen that way, I have not wasted time and did nothing wrong - i reached the final goal that was to be acchieved.

Years ago I was more tolerant and of good will and intention towards islam. but that was before I somewhat completed to combine personal experinces in foreign locations with academical knowledge. the latter let the first appear in different light since one year now, or longer. Also, some contradictory memories of events during travelling - today suddenly make sense. Unfortunately, all these changes in my perception of Islam are for the worse, not for the better. When I think of Iran, which I once held some hope for, I feel dissapointed, and not just because of Ahmadinejadh (whom I do not expect to become a lasting figure on the political stage).

I changed from Paulus to Saulus, it seems. I do not like it, but let's face it - I have turned into a hardliner towards Islam. Hurts my ego to admit that I had follies on my mind, but makes me feel better in my no longer twosplit attitude. Like a relief. Don't trying to be a nice guy anymore. They want the hard way of playing - okay with me. that game can be played by both sides.

I also have re-read the better part of my literature on Islam during last year. Much of it seemed to be completely new books to me. Memories from my travellings are now feeding back into the intellectual input. I think, growing age also has somethign to do with it.

I think we are heading for severe turbulence. Which is a chance to see what in our setup is solid, and what is weak.

Along a similar vein, I had an experience that resembled Skybird's, although my attitude was aimed more towards the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

I used to be a strong believer in the peace process. The Palestinians were asking for the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and E. Jerusalem, in addition to the "right of return." In 2000, the Israelis offered the Palestinians the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip with land added to make up for the lack of East Jerusalem. In other words, the square mileage would have been the same. I felt that this was an amazing offer for the Palestinians, who basically got most of what they had wanted out of the deal. They promptly rejected the plan, refusing to accept it because it did not offer EVERYTHING that the Palestinians wanted.

That is when I lost faith in the peace process and decided that dealing with the Palestinians was a waste of time. Any deal that would have to be made in this process needs to reflect a compromise, on both sides. Israel did so, offering the Palestinians a significant portion of the land of their New Jersey-sized state. The Palestinians refused to compromise, and I doubt that they ever will. Therefore, my attitude has become: Screw 'em.

I am not a racist either but I swear it's hard to call these people on streets burning flags as anything other than dirty brainless monkeys. It's disgusting, and shows governmtns there have absolutely no control. How did it come to this?...

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Originally Posted by Type941

Its not that the governments other there have no control on the situation, they actively support it.
Its a very very big difference.

to me personally this shows that none of the muslims cant be trusted to behave normally they have no moral standing and i dont care weather they were told to riot by the leaders or not its a total overreaction its not as if mohammet was a god but a prophet if he was a god he would have his dolphins whats the problem

If Turkey joins EU im going to burn something. :hmm: http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...archived=False

"Cooperation is possible on the basis of our shared values."
(Tony Blair on EU membership for Turkey, sometime last years.)

"It is a fact, that terms like dialogue, justice, mutuality (Gegenseitigkeit), or terms like human rights and democracy have a completely different meaning and understanding for Muslims than for us."
(The bishop of Izmir, 1999)

Hello,
don't want to hijack the "hate the turks" thread, but i was just surprised what the a spokesman of the US secretary of the state, a Mr. Kurtis Cooper, had to say:

"Those cartoons are indeed an attack towards the moslem's belief. We all completely appreciate and respect freedom of speech and press, but it has to be seen in the context of the responsibility of the press."
and
"Inciting religious or ethnical hate in such a way cannot be accepted." (!)

I will spread those cartoons wherever i'm able to, thank you Mr. Cooper.

Greetings,
Catfish

State Departments in all countries are full of pussys.

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Originally Posted by Catfish

GBR and US have troops in Iraq. US and GBR wants Turkey in the EU. GBR and US prepare new war in Iran, but do not want to give the impression it is for racist/cultural/religious reasons.

On the other hand, and without GBR's participiation, today presidents from seven european countries have united and condemend Muslim reaction to the practicing of freedom of speech, while chancellor Merkel got adressed by Ahmadinejadh, saying that as a woman that she is she better should not open her mouth. yesterday Merkel had a short but sharp exchange of words with Iran's envoy to the Munich conference for security, and indirectly compared Ahmadinejadh to the Nazis.

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Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Part of the debate here is whether it was responsible to have printed those cartoons and were they drawn deliberaetly to cause offence.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...398717,00.html

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But as the Danish ambassador was saying on BBC24 (I think it was him) because of the mistake of a single journalist why should other Danes have to suffere eg the ones who lost their jobs due to a boycott of Danish firms, those who might have been hurt in the riots etc..

Because the idea that a journalist would dare to write anything that is not supported by the government, or that he might survive if he did, is completely foreign to them. The fact that the Danish government has not executed the journalist is, to them, obvious proof that the Danish government is behind this.

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Originally Posted by Happy Times

State Departments in all countries are full of pussys.

This case reminds me of a speech by Bush.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010920-8.html
"They hate our freedoms -- our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other."
He was right, if you take this out of context. Of course, when reading the whole speech, he was wrong, because he was only referring to the terrorists. The problem is bigger than that.

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Originally Posted by micky1up

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :lurk:

http://www.alghurabaa.co.uk/articles/new/cartoon.htm
http://www.alghurabaa.co.uk/articles...e%20Police.htm

Years ago, while we stayed in a small camp in an oasis in Western Egypt, there was a dog that strayed around our camp, it was not the first dog I have seen, they belong to the villages there like sand to the desert, but this one acted strange and had some sort of froth at it's snout, and somehow I did not like it's eyes. It came closer and closer, moved backwards, approached again, this time some more closer, and so it went for half an hour. Then, with a sad heart, I put together my bow, it seemed to feel what was coming and moved backwards again, but I shot it dead. I did not want to risk that that dog was sick, maybe had rabbies, and someone of us four would get bitten. I buried it together with the arrow, did not want to risk infection from it. This was the only time so far that I have intentionally killed a living creature. I did not like it, but I also did not feel too bad. It was the right thing to do, in that situation.

This story comes often to my mind when reading such "Mist".