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Hasta la vista baby!

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Originally Posted by Skybird

your tongue heals quickly!

It did not really bleed, I just had to bite it. And when I read back to the last posting of page one of this subject I have to bite it again...
:D

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Originally Posted by Skybird

your tongue heals quickly!

Maybe its regenerative. :o

:P

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Originally Posted by Skybird

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Originally Posted by mog

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Originally Posted by Skybird

You talk about searching and finding a flaw in the court'S procedure and sentence. If Schwarzenegger would have found that, it would not be a mercy, but a juristical mistake.

That's right, and if Schwarzenegger could see no problem with Williams' trial, then he must assume that Williams was guilty. In that case, the only grounds for stopping the execution would be if Williams had sufficiently reformed himself. He never admitted to the murders, therefore he never apologised, repented, or felt any remorse for them. Given this, there is no way Schwarzenegger could have granted clemency.

I myself only apologize for things that I have comitted. He denied that he had commited those murders he had been sentenced for. Wouldn'T have been be the first trial leading to false outcomes and sentences.

That's true, but Schwarzenegger and numerous appeals courts found no grounds to overturn the verdict. I personally don't support capital punishment, but my point is that Schwarzenegger really would have been abusing his powers as governor if he were to grant clemency to a man who had received a fair trial and who had not repented for his crimes. It is completely unfair for these Austrians to be holding Schwarzenegger personally responsible when he was doing the job he was elected to do.

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TW did something much more significant and important than confessing to a crime that he said he had not done - that is changing himself, and having influenced hundreds if not thousands of young people not to join a gang and start a wrong career like he himself had done. With that he has given more than a 1:1 compensation and have given something precious and valuable back to the community - the lives of thousands of your young ones, thousands of family saved that way. But these lifes count lesser, obviously, than an excuse for crimes the offender rejects to have done. And that is absolutely queer, in my understanding of ethics and values.

How many children Williams stopped from joining gangs is a matter of speculation. On the other hand, it is a fact that the gang Williams started is responsible for hundreds of murders and destroying countless thousands of lives through its drug running and other activities. Even after he supposedly renounced his gang affiliations about 10 years ago, he refused to help police with investigations involving the Crips because he didn't want to be a snitch. There's simply no way that he has made anything near a 1 to 1 compensation for his lifetime of thuggery.

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Originally Posted by *[FOX

* Bort]The death penalty is so politically charged, I can understand why it was expedient for AHHNOHLD to send TW to the death chamber, though that certainly doesn't mean that I support it, or that I would have done the same in his position.

Were you in his position your choices would be limited by what you could legally do just as his were. A Governor can't overturn a court imposed sentence on a whim.

Hasta la vista baby!

Interesting info, MOG.

However the question is not if he should be punished - he was convicted after all - but if he should get the capital punishment. The interwoven question is whether the conviction was justified or not, which is always a dicy question if the alledged crimes are not admitted by the defendant.

Ahhhnold's got spunk! :yep:

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Schwarzenegger to Hometown: Remove My Name
By JENNIFER COLEMAN, Associated Press Writer
Mon Dec 19, 6:51 PM ET

SACRAMENTO, Calif. - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Monday told officials in his hometown in Austria to remove his name from a sports stadium and stop using his identity to promote the city.

The governor's request came after politicians in Graz began a petition drive to rename the stadium, reacting to Schwarzenegger's decision last week to deny clemency to condemned inmate Stanley Tookie Williams. Opposition to the death penalty is strong in Austria.

In a letter that began "Dear Mister Mayor," Schwarzenegger said he decided to spare the Graz city council "further concern" should he be forced to make other clemency decisions while he's governor. Another inmate is scheduled to be executed in California Jan. 17.

"In all likelihood, during my term as governor, I will have to make similar and equally difficult decisions," Schwarzenegger said in the letter. "To spare the responsible politicians of the city of Graz further concern, I withdraw from them as of this day the right to use my name in association with the Liebenauer Stadium."

The stadium was renamed for the former Hollywood star in 1997. He asked that the lettering be removed by year's end.

Schwarzenegger spokeswoman Margita Thompson said the letter was faxed Monday to the Graz city hall. The city council was expected to take up the matter next month.

In the letter, Schwarzenegger also said he would no longer permit the use of his name "to advertise or promote the city of Graz in any way" and would return the city's "ring of honor."

The ring was given to him in a ceremony in Graz in 1999. At the time, Schwarzenegger said he considered it "a token of sincere friendship between my hometown and me."

"Since, however, the official Graz appears to no longer accept me as one of their own, this ring has lost its meaning and value to me. It is already in the mail," the governor wrote.

Williams, co-founder of the Crips gang, was convicted of four 1979 murders. He was executed shortly after midnight Dec. 13.

Hasta la vista baby!

At least "Ahhhnold" is straight!

Thats really weird. In the first post, it is said that austria is changing the name of the stadium because of arnolds decision, and in the other news its said that arnold himself tells austria to change the name.
Thats exactly what I hate about todays news: You never know the real story. News are becoming guesses more and more.

On the death penalty discussion I can only agree with Skybird and TLAM, as there (partly philosophical) explanations were straightto the point.

Revenge/Punishment is one of humanities reasons for never ending conflicts, in big scales, like the middle east and in small scales, like neighboarhood-wars. To defer to the feling of revenge does not make things(murder) undone, while it obviously also doesnt makes USA saver.
I find it kinda ironic, instead of controlling the weapons and guns industry a little bit more, thus making it harder for people to get gun, instead of giving people the chance to change their believes and views in prison so they can go back and influence others, we try to deter people and kill them _after_ they already commited the murder/crime. Even animals are smarter than us humans when it comes down to revenge.

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Originally Posted by drEaPer

There's no contradiction between the 2 reports. :nope: