Well I believed for myself that the point about Pearl Harbour was not the actual attack (in military terms I too admire the attack as much as the attack on Poland or the initial sweep into Iraq in 2003, and I oppose all 3 actions, not that they are the same :doh: ) but the context...an act of aggression that to my mind as I wrote to our local IJN fan here (I am one too I admit) could not be seperated from Japanese actions in the rest of Asia. PH also meant death and suffering for Canadian lads sent uselessly to Hong Kong, AZNACS in Singapore, the Filipino people, Dutch in Indonesia etc. It seems both Americans and non-Americans here want to turn everything from history into a comment on the great old USA. Just as the Second World War did not (even in the Pacific let alone Europe) revolve around the USA, neither does the world today. For the other side, the USA is not the unique source of evil, and the war in Iraq not the only injustice going on today.

I really am getting sick of this. Anyway, Skybird is not a warmonger as written on another thread. no way, he hs cewrtainly experienced violence I have not...and that comes across in his postings.

I'd have to say you are dead wrong and I'm not saying it because I'm an arrogant American. American industry supplied the most equipment out of any country in the war. American manpower supplied most of the manpower in both theaters.
Take those three equations out of the problem and you would be speaking German or Japanese. Thats a fact or please prove me wrong.
Without America the invasion of europe would never of happened.
Without America and the Liberty ships England would have starved.

Lock this thread plz Neal.

I only posted it to show my measure of respect for those who died that day. It is a great and terrible day to me partly being from Arizona I feel for the men aboard the USS Arizona yet always celebrate it being it is my daughters birthday....she's 9 now so for me it is a bitter sweet day that I will always always hold dear.

December 7 truly a day of Infamy.

It's one of our son's birthday, too.

That is how all of our children know more about PH Day than most of their friends and neighbors. Yes, they've all watched "Tora, Tora, Tora" - even our youngest.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote...I posted my respect on this thread...I have argued for the importance of American involvment (even with Russians who are rightfully on about thire huge sacrifices) and criticised the European attitude and obsession with the US too. Everything your wrote is true, but the US would have paid a much higher price without the time bought by the Brits, or blood spilled by the Russians (or Chinese, most IJA troops were in China), and I do in general like the States and it's influence in the past. :-?

Seeing as everyone else is having a go :lol: here's my contribution:

As far as I can see there's some dispute about war and commiting fully to it these days- if you're going to war, then don't start pissing about pretending how noble and justified it is, you've done that already- just get on with it. and finnish it up as fast as possible (it being war, the best way to do this is to kill as many of the enemy and his reasources as possible in the shortest time) I think that's the gist of what Skybird was on about.
The Japanese strike on pearl harbour; I always understood that this was a inevitable considering japans designs on pacific expansion at the time- the american navy being the largest force to overcome to ensure a chance of victory in the pacific for Japan. They were hardly likely to telephone the president and say "well mr president, we're going to annex all the pacific and to do that we need to remove your pacific fleet from the equation to ensure success. Is a week on friday ok with you for this?" From a Japanese military standpoint this is/was entirely an valid and logical reason for a (to use the modern term) 'pre-emptive first strike' on pearl harbour.


That it's a tragedy of loss of human life is not disputable, but never the less to be expected given the circumstances.
Give a thought to all of them who never came home. It is no more or less a tragedy than anything which happens in wartime if you ask me.

The important word that's missing here is "inexcusable".

Who's condoning it?

I found the words "but never the less to be expected given the circumstances" vague.

WTF...??? This is what unbiased moderation is about. Not only stabbing from behind, but turning the blade inside the wound. Whoever did it obviously has not the slightest idea what I was talking about - in another thread. This one has not been started by me. Nor is the title by me. correct it, or delete it. :down:

I have a more constructive idea:

What would you name the thread? ;)

*sigh* I forget that there are some people in this world who only deal in absolutes...
Yes, to be expected given the circumstances of imminent outbreak of war in the pacific from the Japanese military point of view, as I have already made clear, or is that too 'vague'?
At no point did I express that it was my personal oppinion that this action was 'right', or did you miss that?

*sigh* It's often hard to read emotions or sense intentions in written text. :yep:

Agreed. :)
*wanders off for five minutes to find a nice refreshingly cool glass of water*