Well, I'm glad that wasn't actually the punishment of a little boy. The actual story behind the photos, however, is not much more comforting. :huh:

And the kid was only 8. Now, had he been 14....................

And from Amnesty International a record of countries executing child offenders: http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engact500042003

Care to add anything to the topic of discssion being the theory of a clash of civilizations?

That's a matter of debate but it brings us back to the concept of the Muslims cleaning their own house.

Here is the part that is subject to interpretation I guess? Where does it say if they are healthy or where is it exactly that describes where or how to divide this passage?Please give some actual references not just your view.

To me this is a very clear passage.This is what I read from that passage...

Hum it says for a thief cut off some limbs....Am I just dreaming this or is this what it says?

Please Please show me where this is not to be followed as punishment for thieving.

Please!

Again where in the Holy book you follow says the vast majority does not have to follow this ..or is this another assumption on your part?

All kind of horrible punishments and atrocities can be found in all holy books of all major religions...the old aztecs of Mexico even threw young ladies to mud holes, vulcans and ripped the heart of a living man alive as a sacrifice regularly....

What should be so strange about that, if you think that all those books were written during the early middle age at most, sometimes even older?

Didn't the jews kill the prostitutes by llapidation (Throwing stones to them)? Just the same as the muslims do with cheating wives....

I have no problem in agreeing that the geographical and sociopolitical situation of today's majority of muslim countries keeps them almost in the middle age in terms of civilization, so the vast majority of Islam is radical. But doesn't mean that there is no possible moderate interpretation of Quran, in my opinion. If we are to interpret the bible literally, we will be doing horrible atrocities, same as they were done in the middle age. I visited once a museum of the spanish holy inquisition and that was even more horrible than those pictures of the Iranian guy posted before.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/new...00/1379001.stm

Sorry the text is in spanish. Here's the short version in english: Two nuns sentenced to 15 years for helping in the genocide of 7000 people who searched asylum in their church, in Rwanda.

Are they good christians? Is the fact that they commit a crime in the name of God enough to say that the catholic religion is perverted?

Yes in the Islam this is more frequent, quite so when you see the situation in which their civilization lies, in terms of progress.

Do we see images like the punishment of the Iranian child in Turkey nowadays? No? Ain't they muslims? What is the difference between Turkey and Iran, then?

I lived once in germany during a whole month with a turk familiy. That was a summer back when I was in school and we had student exchange. The guy came later to us here at spain. He used to pray regularly to Allah, but did sleep on a bed where a cross was hung above, and did not complaint. He did not complaint if we had pig for lunch (Though my mother asked him repeteadly to cook something else if that offended him), and his answer always was: "I can eat this and see that to correspond your hospitality. Allah does not mind if we do little sacrifices for our friends. The fact that I already suffer eating it, is the correct punishment. It would be a sin if had pleasure and did it voluntarily, but I don't. Allah rewards those who are hospitalary and who are thankful to their friends. This is not an act against my religion but a sign of hospitality from you, and that is what counts."

Sorry, but as long as I can find guys like that, I will not think that it is the Islam itself what is wrong. :hmm:

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True. Although i think America want to make it better for places such as iraq. The truth is theres no way iraq is going to give up there ideas and adopt ours. Can't happen. Democracy in Iraq is gonna fail.

Taking the law into their own hands? And this is something peculiar to Muslims?

I didn't say that. Where would you get such an idea?

Because you keep portraying Muslims as shady characters because they might follow their own particular interpretation of Islam, rather than the actual law. That describes a criminal, following his own views on right or wrong. But your focus is solely on the Muslims, giving the impression that we have no criminals among ethnic Europeans.

EXCUSE ME??? but the last itme i checked the Muslims are very much trying to invade all different aspects of american culture. Not to mention european. A few posts back we were talking about a group of muslims somewhere arguing that owners shouldnt be able to sell liqour out side there own property. Because it offneds them. Of course they would have you believe it was the children they were worried about. I think the initial post in this topic can X that right out of the realm of possabilities.

As far as nOObs to religion go, we are practicing the same religion that was practised in your neck of the woods so many years ago, You remember that christianity started over there(European areas.)

In the past few years our culture has changed dramatically to allow for the "Feelings" of others.

Oh and ive really got to say that it must be nice to have a society that encourages beating your women folk when they dont abide by your rules. Only after you have expressed your feelings about the tings she did wrong. if that doesnt work your supposed to kick her out of the bed for a month, and when all that doesnt work your encouraged to take a stick and beat the living daylights out of her.

Oh and lets not forget about the guy who returned from Mecca thinking his 13 or 14 yr old daughter was no longer a virgin....
And what did he do you may ask????

well quite simple actually, he sat all of his children down duck taped the girl and began to Slit her neck in front of her siblings!! THIS WAS HER FATHER!!!

What is the answer to all of this?

Can anyone say Glass Bowl?

This is just journalism. If you cared to quote more of that thread, you'd also see comments to the effect that these complaints were made by a very small (but highly vocal) minority within another minority. And that most Muslims don't mind piggy banks or out door servings of alcohol at all. Hell, I can even mention Christian groups who have made the same sort of complaints over here (with regards to alcohol). So your argument is really not usable, unless you're working for the Sun.

Thought it started in the Middle East?

Yes, we grew less xenophobic for a period after the war. Which I think is a good thing. But now it's coming back.

It happens all over the world. We just pretend that we don't do it as much.

This is a cultural thing, and not limited to Islam. You see it, and similar things, as much in Hindu sections of India as well, but it is strictly forbidden by law. Those kinds of traditions are being combatted, but old habits die hard. Because this is not a problem confined to Islam, though, and because this does not occur in every Islamic country, the obvious conclusion must be: It is not a trait of Islam.

Alas, the matter is getting mixed up.

@Kissaki,

Islam only matters to us because it is getting more and more influential in our West. The question and debate is: Does the West want that to happen and if not: Do we still allow it by being liberal and tolerant ? It's our choice !

Islam in the ME and other significant muslim countries is just fine by me. It belongs there for a long time. It doesnt bother me as long as it's a domestic reli-cultural phenomenon there. But if an Iranian president starts the old Jihad rethoric against Israel and possibly seeks nuclear power for apparent reli-political reasons, how can I not be bothered by it ?

The islam-extremists are evidently causing major unrest in the world. And the moderate's silence is quite deafening. Even a blind and deaf person can notice that. Yet, you fail to notice it.

Well you're making several assumptions that are just incorrect. I'm not casting all Muslims as shady characters. Care to detail where i have said or implied such a thing?

As for my focus, please check the title of this thread for clarification as to what I should be focusing on.

Did you mix me up with someone else again?