Some of it may be piddly but you have to replicate it and then figure out a solution. Also in fixing one bug you might inadvertantly create one or more new bugs. Everything has a knock on effect so that is why it takes time. Some might accuse me of SCS worship but there are also the realities of programming to contend with.

I haven't played DW for a bit not cos of bugs or whatever but I haven't had time and there aren't enough OHP scenarios out there and I hate playing my own ones as they have no suspense. Oh and I am also lazy at the moment since I now spend all day looking at a computer screen moving lines about.

From what ludger menetioned about a recalculated sound algorithm taking raytracing into account doesn't sound piddly to me.

Nööö :) I am just waiting for the product beeing finished and wonder why it takes them so long if the issues are so minor. Even doesn't post often in the DW-forum currently ;)

:lol: No wonder, why should someone join a virtual fleet if he doesn't love the game!? 90% of other users, wild guess I think, but I descrikbed in an earlier thread some weeks ago that I talked about the game with some potentially interested people, and when mentioning 1. the complexity some turned away, and when I mentioned 2. that htey still plan to bring out a patch, most of the others were gone, too. Sale numbers are not as well as was hoped, SA confessed two or threee weeks ago, and I cannot imagine that I am the only one remembering the interest-killing long wait for SC's 1.08. You may see it different, Fish, but there are not only some Skybirds out there that have learned to refuse to buy games that are still patched.

Oh dear, seems I have tripped a wire again, eh? :-j Okay, I will wait the remaining weeks and months silently, and see what is left of my personal interest once patch is out. For occasional sonar activies SC is still good enough. And the subs are the most important thing I am interested in, eventually the frigate, but the flying toys are not attracting me at all. This is just my personal taste, so don't start to make an issue of it.

The final decision is not made, SD ;) But I consider some things that were mentioned in recent threads to be not really minor, and I refuse do buy intentionally and knowingly software that is in that state. I did not always do like that, but learned to do it over the years. I am simply tired of months of patching - and paying full price for that. They still can win me as a customer, if they get their work done, and in not too long time anymore. When 1.08 was released for SC, it took one year, and that year I spend with workarounds, and frustrations. when 1.08 came, the game already was very much dead for me, due to too long time ow waiting and problems. I don't spend money on that purpose anymore ;)

I must say I can understand someone who'd like to spend their money elsewhere, after hearing what issues there may be with a game. Operation Flashpoint, for instance, was filled to the rim with tiny, tiny glitches here and there that I guess would scare off at least a nice ten percent of the initial buyers. OFP made a great success because it had a pre-release demo and because FPS games in general are easy to sell (its realism was only a bonus!). If DW didn't have a demo... I don't think many of us would be here. :D
Because of good sales, OFP could release manymany patches, and because of that and third-party addons keep its community thrilled. DW could IMO really need some (un)official addons, and patches, BUT... it's a sub sim! Things go slow when you're submerged... we ought to be happy with what we've got (minus the missing MP missions! :D).

Both OFP and DW should appeal greatly to their respective realism-demanding audiences (and OFP appeals to other audiences too), and have the same kind of quality to offer those who wish to see past such extremely tiny bugs as have been made official later.
The marketing of Dangerous Waters will be most efficient if done by its players, on the Internet. On different forums, for free, one post could quickly make five demo-downloads, and a buy or two, if not much more. :ping:

Skybird,

what was the last game you purchased which made you satisfied right away or that within the first three/four months had all "big issues" fixed?...

That is definitely your prerogative, even though the issues you most likely refer to are IMHO being blown way out of proportion. The fact of the matter is that there is no such thing as bug-free software -- especially a simulation of this complexity and fidelity.

But, the bottom line is had everyone taken your "wait and see approach" with Sub Command, DW would have never seen the light of day. The simulation market is a dying niche and we need to support the few remaining developers and perhaps be prepared to overlook a few minor bugs if we want this genre to survive...

Heck, had I been so picky with the software I have installed on my system as you are with DW I would most likely have formatted my hard disk and binned my computer years ago.

Well said Jammer. If you like modern naval sims, buy DW. I mean...What else is there?

And buying it helps ensure there may be something in the future.

So does this mean that, after 'proudly' proclaiming that you "Told two people so far not to waste their money until they fix it", are you now going to go back and tell those two guys that maybe you were wrong about SA and it's okay to make an investment in the game.....?

Richard Burns Rally, Steel Panthers MBT, GTR and to some degree SH3 (although I wouldn't have bought iut before 1.02, if I would have known :) ) As I said in my posting about SPMBT, the issues that some people reported to have with it in their home forum I was not able to recreate so far. maybe because I keep my machine clean, well-sorted and tidy :lol: I also tend to ignore all MP-related issues, since I never play MP.

But what would be today's situation if people would have started to be more demanding concerning the shape of a sotware at release day mayn years ago? Companies would have adopted to that, or would have died. And that would have been very much okay with me. Industry tends to adopt to customer's demands. If customer demands better quality, different business routines would have been established. Since this demand is not there, they spare that effort and see that they can get away with less er quality and still get the full price (I have not necessarily SA on mind when writing this, but the major palyers like EA or UBI).

I could imagine he will do that exactly - once the 1.02 is out. :lol: Because he accpeted the excuse for the delay of the patch, not the current condition of the game, as you suggest.

I didn't 'proudly' anything. I was asked an opinion and gave it. Actually it changes nothing, why should it, nothings changed. Jamie's statement does however clarifies why the patch is taking so long. I'll just monitor the DW forum every couple of weeks instead of every couple of days to check on the patch.

There is no reason to buy it now. I suggest Sky to come back here ( as I will make ) around September to see what the patch will have accomplished and then , just then , decide what to do.

Issues that are refraining you to buy it now are sadly well known among hardcore sim-players, more or less they are the same that have been stopping me to play it since....dozen of weeks despiting the speed-noise hotfix.

Peolple around here don't seem to understand that your is a further declaration of love to DW, not an hate one. ;)

Cheers


Boomer

That's probably the most foolish thing I've ever seen in a Boomer post... and there are so many to choose from...

HOW DO YOU LOVE SOMETHING YOU DON'T HAVE?!?!?

The only nay-sayer here that appears to have a leg to stand on is Brad, because he actually owns the game; still, he's in a vocal minority. Most of the posts you see here and in other forums regarding DW are essentially positive, with enthusiasts willing to overlook most of the bugs that exist. Their willingness to overlook the bugs is, in large part, due to the responsiveness of the developer within the community. Anyone who doesn't own DW (the demo doesn't count) and passes any sort of judgement on it does not deserve an audience.

"To some degree"? Sorry, you can't have it both ways. You didn't wait for it to come out, and bought it anyway, and are probably finding the same amount of (if not more) bugs as you might find in DW - assuming you owned it. Which you don't, therefore no basis of comparison exists with regard to "big issues". Did you shelve SH3 until the 1.2 patch came out? Anyway, the aforementioned games, in the viewpoint of people who aren't enthusiasts of each respective genre, probably each have what those non-enthusiasts consider to be "big issues" - yet the enthusiasts are willing to live with them and enjoy the games anyway.

This leads me to make the following statement of theoretical profundity (the following is trademarked and Patent Pending TimmyG00 LLC, LTD):

In any given player's opinion, the severity of a bug is inversely proportional to the level of enthusiasm that player exhibits for the product/genre (with minor exceptions).

Example 1, Naval Sim enthusiast: "Hmmm, the framistan converters aren't properly modeled in this sim... But I can live without them until they're fixed... this game rocks!"

Example 2, General gamer: "WTF is wrong with my framistan converters? They don't work worth a SH!x!! THIS GAME SUCKS, DON'T BUY IT!"

Example 3, forum poster looking for attention: "There are so many show-stopping bugs in this game that I'm not going to buy it until I hear that these bugs are fixed! What? No, I haven't bought it.... Yes, I've bought games before that had no bugs in them.... What? You say those games have bugs? Oh, alright, they do, but I can live with them... those games rock!"

TG

Have you ever " fallen in love " with a car before buying it ? ...and above all having bought previous models......but if you read that a feature is missing or not working you wait to buy it,because you want it good,drivable not for the common sense of driving ( TV spots... ) but for your sense of driving....

Going deeper in this metaphor Skybird mentions he owns Richard Burns Rally, well, me too. :yep:

Timmy, if you had this game you could definetely better understand what I consider ( maybe even Skybird ) a REAL SIM. Throw out of the window Colin Mc Rae rally , Championship rally and so on...if you want to play a SIM and not a movie you must buy Richard Burns rally.

If you are aiming for a real sim you can get rid of last generation graphical effects but you can't accept compromises on basic features,once for all the possibility to use the dipping sonar on player controlled helos whenever I want and wherever I want.

Boomer


P.S. : take it easy :)