I was implying shot placement, which relies on accuracy and training, however where accuracy is concerned there are two types. Range accuracy, and combat accuracy. A major component of combat accuracy, is "speed vs accuracy". You can't really have both unless your a robot, or some high speed low drag super charged go to war machine with thousand and thousands of rounds invested in realistic training scenarios not found at your standard gun range.

Range to target will have an effect on speed vs accuracy. At 25 yards you can sacrifice some speed for accuracy. However, at 15, 10, 7, or 5 yards, your going to have to strive for more speed, but be less accurate. The overall goal isn't tight groupings, but simply hitting the target "in the black" in a stress situation, or as some professionals will call it, a "dynamic situation".

It's funny, only as a civilian did i really start looking into more training options. In the AF, all they taught us was shoot center of mass at the target closest to you because that is the more immediate threat. (Or at least that's all i remember, aside from field stripping an M16, and I barely remembered that.) I'm finding there's alot they didn't teach us. But that's the AF for you.

EDIT:
For what it's worth, since I made the decision to carry a concealed firearm, I've been trying to educate myself as much as I can. I posted this before, but it might be worth reposting:
Dr Andreas Grabinsky on Gunshot Wounds (Some images are graphic )

Also Ducimus, the AF isn't teaching you how to be a combat ground soldier either.

I agree with that "speed v. accuracy" thing, but what I agree with more is "slow is smooth, smooth is fast." One of the best weapons instructors I've ever had taught me to be accurate first, and fast later. He said with time, my speed would come, but for right now, focus on hitting the target the first time, every time.

Once you have the concept, it's like riding a bike. Perfect sight picture, apply gradual and deliberately controlled back pressure on the trigger (he didn't like using the term "pull"), when the weapon discharges, track the rise and fall of the front sight post, and as soon as your sights are perfectly aligned again on target, apply your second round on target. This is known as the controlled pair or "double tap" as we all have come to know. Many people try to do this fast and end up missing every time. Make sure to time your breathing with your shots. Breathe, hold, fire, exhale, repeat. Always remember to follow through. I would shoot expert every time. From that point, it's all about proficiency practice and honing your skills. Do not just go to the range to hear gun go bang. Bring 10-15 rounds, and make them all perfect shots.

I was an Engineer in a self contained rapid mobile construction unit that operated independently. I received more training then your average chairforce personnel. Most of that involved building bases, runways, establishing main line of defence, tertiary lines of defense, fighting positions, hardening positions, establishing interlocking fields of fire and all that jazz. Where they skimped on was individual marksmanship.

Yeah and from the sounds of your specialty, they probably would have skimped on marksmanship in the light of other, more practical training for your line of work. Army engineers only do their 40 round qual a year and that's about it. Really unless you're in an infantry or spec forces unit, you're going to be cleaning it more than you shoot it more often than not.

Yup pretty much. We solved practical problems. I didn't know the Army engineers only had to do a 40 round annual qualification. Being Army, I always figured they got more then us. We are about the same in that regard really. Never did have good experiences with them. Had better experiences working with the Seabee's. Not sure why. I think the Army just hates Air Force a lot more then the Navy does.

Funny thing, I'm quick to defend my unit type, but not so much on the AF in general. I do happen to agree with most of the crap most other branch's say about the AF, though on the same note not all the sterotypes are correct regardless of branch. As an off the wall example, AF is supposed to have the best chow, yet I've actualy had better chow at an Army chow hall , then most of the "Aerospace dining facilities" (aka " the scarf and barf") ive ever ate at.

In any event, I have indeed learned more about marksmanship as a civy.

The military surprisingly does not have a large budget for weapons training and ammunition expenditure. Allocating funds to research the endangered Mexican singing frogs of southern Sri Lanka is more important. Of course, most of those funds go in the pockets of uncle sam's benefactors, and about .0000001% goes to the actual cause... But we won't talk about that... It's bad for PR you know.. :shifty:

:agree:

Sounds abut like my USAF experience.I "volunteered" to be a back up Security Forces at Ramstein and they only bothered to train us in the combat aspects and none of the LE ones.Funny thign was that about half of the SPs where ex Army or Marine Infantry the better ones and they made a good impression on some of the others the rest where lazy.
So we received some more specific training on the M-16 and the other small arms and that was optional but I figured why not.What if I did have to use the M60 for real might as well at least know how to work it.

In my regular job the M16 just got in my way for 70% of the USAF it would serve as a paper weight.But hey those electric pencil sharpeners are dangerous.I used to love it when I over heard a pencil pusher talk about how nice of a winter day it was I used to think how nice it must be to have a warm desk to sit in and look at the weather.Anyway like they say a bad day in the field is much better than a good day in an office.I had an indoor job for about 6 months after I left the AF it just about killed me the boredom.

In basic training though it was the most basic I think they showed us how to strip the M-16 but did not make us do it if they did it was just that one day so not enough for someone who never handled and firearm before or even someone who had not handled an M16 or Ar15 before.I knew more about the M16/Ar from my father and learning from him LRRP style the only thign clean on an LRRP during a patrol was his weapon. From 2008 up they started a much more in depth M16 training course they actually get issued at the start of basic now.

.22, .25, and .32 are best for up close jobs as they rarely exit the skull with the proper ammo.
Instead the round takes several trips around the inside of the cranium doing more damage then a through and through might cause.

I have one friend that was shot in the face with a .25 from across a street.
He was lucky and walked away as the distance was to great for the small round.
It entered his left cheek, bounced off the base of his skull and exited out the back of his neck.

Another tried to end his life with a .357 to the head. He's messed up but lived to dial 911 as the round went through where a .22 or such would have done the roundy-round thing.

Yeah if you're gonna do yourself in, never use a gun, you'll flinch and blast your face off, only to live marred or die in agony. Nothing is worth taking yourself out over. Give it enough time and you'll die naturally anyways.

Good point. I always viewed killing ones self as letting what ever was getting you down win.Aside from some sort of altruistic circumstance it really isn't worth the trouble nor the pain it causes the people that are close to you.So what if you lost all your money or some woman ditched you or your job sucks.


Now lying on bed with terminal cancer and choosing to forgo further treatment that is different of course in that case you would be close to death anyway.

Some kid that went to the same school as me his dad offed himself with a .22 to the temple only he did not die right away his wife found him 6 or 7 hours later and he was still breathing he only died an entire day later so he must have suffered to some extent and had no way to communicate the amount of pain he might have been in.

Yeah, bad news, don't do it. Gun suicides almost always fail.

I've had way to many friends off themselves over the years.
:nope:
Also to many that have attempted it.

I may be crazy and ride with no helmet or jump out of aircraft and such.
But I can't fathom doing myself in.