Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 2145315)

There are ways around that as well. Here in MD the Officals conduct raids on suspected business owners who are hiring illegals. The business owner receives heavy fines. Enough to put them out of business in some cases. The behavior of the business owners needs to change as well. Home owners need to change their behavior. Contracting on Jose without insurance or license can be a major headache if something goes wrong. We tend to point at the illegal all the time when it is of our own doing that causes these problems.

Originally Posted by Armistead (Post 2145332)

Well, like I said, most have found ways to put on the legal front, but still work illegals. I don't know of one contractor that's ever been hit, but they do hit some big corps. Fact is they really do nothing, because of politics...
I could walk into 100 businesses right now and expose it and I'm sure they know more than I do.

However, to say illegals haven't cost many US jobs is wrong. Like I said up until the mid 90's you could walk on any large construction job and still find majority of US workers with decent pay....

I think the 12 million here will get a legal status very soon, I'm seeing many in the GOP getting on board.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 (Post 2145257)

Border security only.Defending the borders is not extreme...

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2145356)

Execution without trial merely on suspicion or suspicion of possible intent is just about as extreme as you can get.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 2145347)

Well, when there is a raid the outcry is staggering. Certainly the illegals have taken jobs. But, the jobs I see them working are manual labor such as drywall and lawn care. Both jobs I would not like to do everyday. However, rounding up 12 million and getting buses lined up to start deporting is not feasible. It would be best to get them in the systems and paying taxes.

The GOP wants the votes. Same as the Dems work for.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 (Post 2145084)

Tolerance is a good thing, but we have been so tolerant of things for so long, it will be our undoing.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 2145347)

Well, when there is a raid the outcry is staggering. Certainly the illegals have taken jobs. But, the jobs I see them working are manual labor such as drywall and lawn care. Both jobs I would not like to do everyday. However, rounding up 12 million and getting buses lined up to start deporting is not feasible. It would be best to get them in the systems and paying taxes.

The GOP wants the votes. Same as the Dems work for.

Originally Posted by Armistead (Post 2145367)

That's why we should secure our border first or we'll have another 12 million before long. Anyway, it's coming. The downfall of the economy did slow it some.

Yep, the GOP wants the votes now because they know it's coming....Fact is, most Mexicans I knew had more GOP beliefs than Dems.

I really don't care, just hate the politics and confusion of it. Most I worked with are nice, hard workers and decent family people....and they have some beautiful women......

Originally Posted by TarJak (Post 2145120)

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Or not as the case may be.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 2145361)

Illegals are not executed. Not sure how your statement applies here. :hmmm:

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ. (Post 2145374)

Its easy to say that when you already have/had a career. For a student trying to start his life and not wanting to put himself in nearly a hundred thousand dollars of debt, any job will do. We need manual labor jobs for CITIZENS more than ever. This isn't the 70s anymore. Manual labor and entry position jobs are rarer than they've ever been before. And Mr. Jose with his 6 anchor babies undermining the minimum wage sure as hell isn't helping. In a country that has decided that public education be a low priority, and the cost to attend college has exploded far past what inflation has, getting a job is the difference between 100,000 dollars in debt and maybe 50,000 dollars in debt. NOT TO MENTION THE ILLEGALS ARE GETTING PRIORITY REGISTRATION AND THEIR OWN FREAKING SCHOLARSHIPS, AS WELL AS ACCESS TO FAFSA AND FEDERAL LOANS!! What does Mr. white citizen college student get? The shaft.

If amnesty does come, which i GUARANTEE it will, it better come with a sealed border. All that these illegals are doing is flooding the education system with their kids, and undermining and lowering the standard of living by working for pennies, while also flooding our welfare system and medicaid assistance because they work for so little. Give them citizenship and then ACTUALLY enforce the damned laws we have. We simply cannot support another flood of 12 million people in our already meager system.

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2145392)

Its in Bubbles post about what he wants as a solution.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 2145282)

They undercut nothing. They do jobs that those who feel that they are above will not do. Spend sometime investigating what white and black Americans do to the system and how they drain it for all it's worth. Thinking all legal persons here in the states are productive upright citizens is jaded. You will be astonished and disgusted. Yes, $50 is a lot to Jose. That is the difference between those that feel they should be making $100k fresh out of HS instead of working the ladder. But you know, John Smith's Lawn Care could have quoted $1.00 less than Joe's Lawn Care and the customer would have taken it. Business undercuts business. It is the nature of business. The other lawn care person in your scenario could have done the job for less or same charge. But, Joe's Lawn Care should understand there are others in his line of work that will quote and compete. Perhaps Joe should take up another line of work. Other than manual labor that these illegals do what other industry other than lawn care and construction is affected by illegals? I don't see undercutting throwing mulch as a threat to society financially or otherwise.

And to add, the homeowner, did he inquire if Jose is licensed and bonded? What if Jose mistakenly runs his mower through the homeowners house? Can Jose pay for the damages? Any homeowner should do their homework before contracting on for any types of repairs. The homeowner is at fault for accepting Jose's offer. I only contract on those that are licensed, bonded and insured. Can Jose prove any of these requirements of mine? No? Jose will not be working on my lawn then.

Originally Posted by Stealhead (Post 2145385)

Actually the rate of illegal immigration has been dropping steadily since 2009 the year after the economy went to hell.That proves that taken as whole the illgals are in fact not taking jobs in most cases that a legal immigrant is usually wiling to perform.

http://home.comcast.net/~markthoma/G...gal.3.4.06.jpg

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...redictor/?_r=0

My point is that these people have been here for decades and they really are not taking that many jobs that others really want to perform.In the end even with your example it is not the illegal to blame fro taking over the painting industry in your region it is the fault of Us citizens who are business owners choosing to hire them and of customers to use contractors that employ illegals.


Americans want things that contradict each other they want to pay the least amount of money for something which forces companies (in order to maintain profit margins) to pay legal workers low wages or to pay illegal workers even lower wages seeing that there is such little real punishment for employing illegals many companies choose this route and what do they care so long as they are making money it does not matter to them.