SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Bloodbath in Egypt

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On Egypt and the damn Brotherhood, this: all what is to be said about these blood-happy bastards.

LINK: Crush the Muslim Brotherhood

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Like all terrorist organizations, the Muslim Brotherhood has only one commodity to trade in. Blood.

In the war of ideas for the future of Egypt, the Brotherhood had nothing to offer but the blood of its followers and victims. It has no new ideas. It has no record of accomplishments. It has no vision for the future except the same old corruption and authoritarianism cloaked in a deceptive Islamist garb.

The outcome of any interaction with the Brotherhood could have been predicted from its motto; “Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur’an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.”

In the streets of Egyptian cities, Muslim Brotherhood activists achieved their highest hope. They died in their Jihad against the liberal opposition and the military, fighting against human rights for women and Christians, against multi-party rule, freedom of speech, museums, libraries and the future in the way that the armies of Allah have died for over a thousand years.

Some died trying to kill Egyptian soldiers and police officers. Others were killed by their own people in order to maximize the death toll and spread shock and horror through the international community.

Like their Hamas outlet in Gaza, like their Syrian brigades who have wrecked entire cities and filled them with corpses, and like Al Qaeda, whose leaders have always been Muslim Brotherhood members; the Brotherhood does not care whose blood it spills.

When your highest hope is dying for Allah, then everything else is a detail. The Muslim Brotherhood’s leaders, men like Morsi and Khairat el-Shater, are far less eager to die for Allah. Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the Brotherhood’s mad genocidal preacher, is still hiding out in Qatar and spewing calls for violence from under the skirts of the equally cowardly Qatari Emir, who finances the Brotherhood’s wave of death and terror in the region while living it up in his palaces.

In his final speech, Morsi boasted of his willingness to sacrifice his blood for power. The Brotherhood’s preacher of hate, Qaradawi, urged Jihadists from around the world to come and be martyred in Egypt.

For the wealthy titans of the Brotherhood, their followers are pawns to be disposed of, human shields for their political ambitions. The Muslim Brotherhood spent their blood generously during the clashes with Egyptian police the same way that Hamas and Hezbollah spill the blood of their own people.

What it bought with their blood is the outrage of the world. Terrorist organizations are one-trick ponies. They unleash horrifying violence, blame it on the brutality of the authorities and wait for the world to step in and apply pressure on whatever government they are trying to overthrow.

The Brotherhood’s leaders knew that. Their speeches amping up their followers for a deadly struggle created the tension that exploded into brutal violence.

The Muslim Brotherhood’s leaders followed the oldest traditions of Islam by offering their followers paradise and atonement in exchange for unleashing their darkest passions. That the unleashing should have ended in hundreds of deaths is not at all unprecedented in the many wars and conflicts of Islam.

What any normal person would consider a massacre, the Muslim Brotherhood considers an opportunity.

The Muslim Brotherhood used the blood of its followers as currency to buy international outrage that will be used to pressure Egypt into releasing Brotherhood leaders like Morsi and and Khairat el-Shater. It wanted the clashes to be as ugly and bloody as possible. It wanted to outrage the world because it knew that was the speediest way of getting its leaders out of their prison cells and back into power.

These murderous tactics would be useless if the United States and Europe weren’t full of useful idiots and fellow travelers, in and out of the media, gasping at the carnage and demanding an immediate halt to the violence. There is only one way to halt the violence and that is to crush the Muslim Brotherhood.

Egypt has only had peace by suppressing the Muslim Brotherhood. It will only have peace when the Muslim Brotherhood is suppressed once again. The last two years have shown that there can be no peace with the Muslim Brotherhood.

In or out of power, the Brotherhood is murderous, intolerant and ruthlessly bent on absolute power.

Responding to the carnage with new calls for an end to foreign aid is an explicit form of collaboration in the Muslim Brotherhood’s atrocities and the surest way to ensure that they will be repeated. Egypt may deserve to lose its foreign aid, but issuing such calls now is handing a victory to the world’s worst terrorist organization and giving it every incentive to up the body count next time around.

The calls for Brotherhood participation in an Egyptian government are senseless insanity. Is there room for a movement that seeks nothing but death in the ranks of any government? Should murderous madness on such a scale really be the currency that purchases power? Should the burners of churches and the torturers of peaceful protesters be rewarded with power a second time?

Western governments fear escalation in Egypt. And that fear is the secret weapon of every terrorist group. The terrorist groups always escalate, spending their currency of blood cheaply to break the will of their enemies. The only way to break that cycle is to out-escalate them by showing that their currency of blood is worthless because the people and governments they are terrorizing will not be bent under its terrible weight.

Wars aren’t won through de-escalation, but through escalation. America lost in Afghanistan because it wasn’t willing to fight harder and bloodier than the Taliban. The Egyptian government has shown that it is willing to match the Muslim Brotherhood’s ruthlessness without backing down.

To reward the courage of the Egyptian soldiers and police who fought the Muslim Brotherhood in the streets by forcing their government to stand down and surrender to the terrorists who nearly turned Egypt into a second Iran is an unmitigated crime. It is a crime whose consequences will not only be felt by the women and Christians of Egypt, but by all of us.

110% on target.

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Actually you don't pay church taxes if you're not a member of a church. I've never paid church taxes and I also can't remember to have paid a substitute tax instead.:hmm2:

To clarify.
That is why forced was written as "forced" as his claim is not true.
The substitute tax is the "protection money" Sky talks of in those other countries not yours, which also happens to be another false claim he makes.

Then again anyone who cites stuff from Horowitz publications is bound to be making piles of false claims ain't they, after all it was a major source of material for that nut Breivik whose manifesto Sky agreed with.

Didn't the US media paint this revolution as good?

What happened?

Our intel agencies are so smart! Just ask the World trade Center and USS cole.

damn we know everything!

High five! (* deafening silence*)

All politics and religion aside, I've found one of the best sources of information in the middle of this mess right now is Jeremy Bowen, he has a twitter account, and even if you don't have a twitter account, it's worth keeping an eye on his, he tweets pictures and such from it, and he gets in as close as he can to what's going on and equally, does his best not to get drawn to either side. In my opinion, he's one of the BBCs best journalists.

https://twitter.com/BowenBBC

Here's a compliation of his tweets from yesterday:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23734354

It's good to see him back on the streets of Cairo after he received shotgun wounds from the Egyptian military last month and had to fly back to the UK for treatment.

They are mulling a new ban on the MB.

This - and ruthlessly cracking down on them - that are the only realistic options. Egypt needs stability, for generating economic recovering and financial income from tourism. That cannot be gotten with the MB. For tourists it does not matter what government form there is: they want security. For investors it does not matter what government form there is: they want trustworthiness of treaties, and stability. The importance of democracy (and radicals using it to establish tyranny) is once again hopelessly overestimated in case of Egypt. What it needs is a government strong enough and determined enough to keep the MB in chains. Whether the militarey is strong enough, I do not know. But it certainly seems to be determined. And it is certainly one of the better militaries in the region.

Germany's Westerwelle and Merkel nevertheless have stopped all aid and support, refusing to see the priorities and insisting on the trouble makers being given share of the power again so that they can mess it up for all others even more again. Retards. Denial of reality from some point on is a serious psychopathologic symptom.

Whilst it is a shame to be in a position to do so, I do agree with you Skybird. Particularly since the military and police have shown absolutely no interest in working with the MB, so the only way Egypt is going to have stability is underneath a military dictatorship, ala Mubarak, which is what the military is setting up, or at the very least it's smashing the MB so hard that when elections come, it'll be rather likely that the candidate the military wants will win.

The average Egyptian is on the militarys side at the moment, I wonder how long that will last... :hmmm:

I thought this was a fairly well written article by Bowen a little earlier:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23724269

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Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 2101549)

Whilst it is a shame to be in a position to do so, I do agree with you Skybird. Particularly since the military and police have shown absolutely no interest in working with the MB,

What...? I remember very clearly that the MB was given week after week of delays and chances in a bid for making them rethink concessions and negotiate their participation in a future government. The MB refused all and everything, and practiced total maximum opposition and denial.

It is in no way the fault of the security that the situation turned into what it is. When the conflict openly broke out, however, the military indeed acted with determination. In the bigger cities, they seem to have the support of a majority of citizens. In rural places however I expect the MB to have domination in public opinion.

Also, those "secular" Egyptians opposing the MB now, have to quite some degree voted for this kraken just a bit over one year ago, and a very huge majority of Egyptians just two years ago was - once again - found to be in support of Sharia playing the decisive role in forming a future Egyptian state system. Some years ago I gave a number on that support in some thread, 80-90% being for a Sharia based constitution and Egypt becoming an Islamic republic. I doubt that this numbers has decreased too much. A bit maybe under the impression of Morsi's year and recent events, but not too much. Last time I was in Egypt must have been 2004 I think. Back then the youth gave the strong impression of what I also saw before in Iran: that it wanted some more liberties regarding media, press, less pressure from the secret police - but nevertheless no democracy by American example, but an Islamic republic nevertheless, based on Sharia. I wanr against assessing the Egyptian opinion by the only example or people in Cairo. That is as representative only as for example the mood in Instanbul is for the Anatolian coreland - both are lightyears apart. Part of the misconception of Turkey stems from judging it only by Instanbul, some other big cities, and the tourist resort. The majoirty of Turks do not live in these places... Same for Egypt. Egypt is more than just Cairo and Alexandria and some isolated tourist ressorts.

Boy, its so long time ago. :huh:

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Originally Posted by soopaman2 (Post 2101006)

Didn't the US media paint this revolution as good?

What happened?

Our intel agencies are so smart! Just ask the World trade Center and USS cole.

Just because a politician makes statement, one can not assume that the IC is in support of it. All politicans are required to do is take what the IC produces under consideration. No politician is ever required to base their decisions on Intel... and quite often don't.

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Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2101623)

Oh, no no, I wasn't putting this solely on the military or security, although a cynical mind could concoct a scenario in which both entities deliberately did not integrate with the MB in order to undermine it, but as they say, it takes two to tango. Morsi had an agenda, an Islamist agenda, and he made the n00b mistake of doing it all too quickly and playing his hand far too early.
I also agree that Egyptians want a more liberal Sharia republic, with many of the freedoms that the west enjoys in regards to media and the like, but the laws of Sharia. Obviously how well the two mix together is up for a long and exhaustive debate at another time but certainly the more secular Egyptians are the vocal minority, but they have the support (at this time) of the military and security forces, and as Mao once said 'Political power grows from the barrel of a gun'. Now obviously the military wants a Mubarak style situation back, so they can keep getting their American money and technology, and keep their foot in the door of the future of Egypt, perhaps they have looked across at Iran and the 'Revolutionary Guard' and seen how political Islam gets the military under control and wants no part of that. So obviously they are going to kill every single Muslim Brotherhood member they can find, which is going to be a very bloody process as the more they kill MB members the more the Brotherhood gets support, both from inside Egypt and from outside Egypt. Meanwhile the people who are supporting the military are going to start getting cold feet, and we'll be back to Tahrir Square again for the third overthrow.

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Whilst it is a shame to be in a position to do so, I do agree with you Skybird.

Think about it oberon, that is exactly what spurred the growth of the MB last time, doing the same again will only bring the same results.

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The average Egyptian is on the militarys side at the moment, I wonder how long that will last...

Its not lasting at all, they are jumping ship in droves.
Not surprising really as the military is giving them exactly what they rebelled against in the first place.

Think about it, you have the same bodies running the show again, the original rebellion was against the institutionalised corruption of those bodies, police and army brutality, indefinite detention without trial, government censorship, dodgy secret police having a free for all with no accountability, suspension of constitutional rights.
All those are back again, it can only go one way and the fundamentalist nuts are the only ones who will benefit in the long term.
History is full of examples where severe military clampdowns on groups with marginal or middling popularity simply propels support for those groups through the roof

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It is in no way the fault of the security that the situation turned into what it is.

Unbelievable:doh:
If the army overthrows a government and installs martial law it is wholly responsible for the inevitable results.
A military dictatorship is a military dictatorship, it does what it does and bears full responsibility for all that it does

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In the bigger cities, they seem to have the support of a majority of citizens. In rural places however I expect the MB to have domination in public opinion.

:har::har::har::har:
In the rural places they go for al-nour, they hand out money to the peasants

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Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 2101638)

A misunderstanding only, then.

Down the rabbit hole.
The dictatorship run State media are claiming the MB are part of a US/UK/Israeli terrorist plot to destabilise the country.
The Saudi backed pro coup protesters are saying the dictatorship should respond to Americas "threats" by rejecting the US military aid and ripping up the peace treaty.

I wonder if any of the coup supporters in the west will ever stop and think about what exactly it is they are supporting:nope:

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleto...-12536017.html

A translated German reprint of an Egyptian essay by an Egyptian commentator, Chalid al-Chamissi. About how the mask has been ripped off the face of the MB, and the Egyptian people's anger about the idiotic stupidity and impertinent ignorrance of Europeans and Americans wanting to bring the MB into government again.

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A translated German reprint of an Egyptian essay by an Egyptian commentator, Chalid al-Chamissi. About how the mask has been ripped off the face of the MB, and the Egyptian people's anger about the idiotic stupidity and impertinent ignorrance of Europeans and Americans wanting to bring the MB into government again.

So that's Khaled al-khamissi. That would be the writer who said Obama supports the MB because they are conservative and the Saudis support them because they are Islamists.
I wonder why Obama supported the coup and Saudi funded the anti Morsi protests then?

Still I suppose its better than the dictatorships line of crap they are putting to the Egyptian people where the Muslim brotherhood is really a global Jewish conspiracy:rotfl2: