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-   -   Time for an abortion topic? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=199832)

Cybermat47 12-19-12 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1979397)
The only opinion that counts is that of the mother carrying the child.
You have a point.

Onkel Neal 12-20-12 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1979397)
And that's the crux of the matter. It is only your opinion. And the opposite is only the opinion of the person who supports abortion. The only real argument possible is not the question of whether it's murder, or of when life begins, but of whose opinion counts most. The basis of current law is that, argue all you want for the rights of the unborn child, there is only one person whose opinion really counts. That person is not you, and it is not me, and it isn't the doctor who provides the service or the minister who opposes it. The only opinion that counts is that of the mother carrying the child.
What about the father?

magic452 12-20-12 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Stevens (Post 1979478)
What about the father?
When you come down to it Neal the father doesn't have much in the way of "rights" at any point. The only "right" you get is the right to pay and if you do you may be able to visit the kid on weekends.

Magic

Tribesman 12-20-12 02:22 AM
Quote:
What about the father?
What about the mother and the father and in this case the doctors?
The only problem in this story is the politicians who flatly refuse to do their job

TarJak 12-20-12 04:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 1979493)
What about the mother and the father and in this case the doctors?
The only problem in this story is the politicians who flatly refuse to do their job
I think the father in this case may have a say in it:
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2...or-experts.jpg

Sailor Steve 12-20-12 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Stevens (Post 1979478)
What about the father?
He can try to talk her out of it, or into it, as the case may be. That's a personal issue, and needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis. Actually, I think every case should be handled that way. But the question isn't one of individual cases; the question is abortion as a religious, moral and legal concept. Everyone wants to allow abortion or outlaw it, and we all have opinions, and I say again that within that framework there is only one opinion that should count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magic452 (Post 1979486)
When you come down to it Neal the father doesn't have much in the way of "rights" at any point. The only "right" you get is the right to pay and if you do you may be able to visit the kid on weekends.
Also true, but a different topic. The abortion argument, no matter who is making it for which side, always comes down to the question of whether the expectant mother should be allowed to have one or not. The father's rights are important and should be discussed, but are not relevant to the central question.

AVGWarhawk 12-20-12 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic452 (Post 1979486)
When you come down to it Neal the father doesn't have much in the way of "rights" at any point. The only "right" you get is the right to pay and if you do you may be able to visit the kid on weekends.

Magic
That about sums up the father end of it. :up:

Armistead 12-20-12 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1979832)
He can try to talk her out of it, or into it, as the case may be. That's a personal issue, and needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis. Actually, I think every case should be handled that way. But the question isn't one of individual cases; the question is abortion as a religious, moral and legal concept. Everyone wants to allow abortion or outlaw it, and we all have opinions, and I say again that within that framework there is only one opinion that should count.


Also true, but a different topic. The abortion argument, no matter who is making it for which side, always comes down to the question of whether the expectant mother should be allowed to have one or not. The father's rights are important and should be discussed, but are not relevant to the central question.

Honestly, I think the abortion question is settled in our country for good.
I don't see our nation getting more religious.

Platapus 12-20-12 02:13 PM
Steve,

The issue is that while the man has little choice, often the man is obligated based on the decision of the mother.

If the mother decides to abort, it does not matter whether the father wanted the baby or not.

If the mother decides not to abort, it does not matter whether the father wanted the baby or not, the father still has to pay.

Women has the authority to make a decision and the man has no authority, even though the decision affects the man.

While I completely support the decision being based on the mother (her body), the law needs to recognize that this decision affects more than the mother/baby.

But then our laws have been biased in favour of women at the expense of men for quite a while.

Sailor Steve 12-20-12 04:56 PM
Platapus, I know all that, and I agree with you, but as I said, that is actually a different issue. It has nothing to do with the question of whether a woman should be "allowed" to have an abortion. If women are prevented to have the procedure at all, the the question of the man's involvement or rights ceases to exist. If women can have one, then and only then do all the other issues come into play.

Platapus 12-20-12 05:20 PM
I agree. :yep:

Tribesman 12-21-12 04:25 AM
Quote:
Also true, but a different topic. The abortion argument, no matter who is making it for which side, always comes down to the question of whether the expectant mother should be allowed to have one or not. The father's rights are important and should be discussed, but are not relevant to the central question.
The central question in this topic is the State.
As you noted here...But the question isn't one of individual cases; the question is abortion as a religious, moral and legal concept.

Catfish 12-21-12 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armistead (Post 1979920)
Honestly, I think the abortion question is settled in our country for good.
I don't see our nation getting more religious.
Just of all in the US i see this theme anything else than settled. My opinion is the woman should have (and has) the last word, another personal opinion is that a fertilized egg is not a "person", but some say it (!] is.

Any of the parties is anxious to make a definite statement in any direction, just because they might lose votes.
[cynic]Bible belt and Ku-Klux-Clan are voters, too[/cynic]

I hope common sense and the enlightenment of the last 20ieth century finds a way, but i am not optimistic. I mean don't they have a Creationism museum. Weirdoes exist the world over, but some really gather at certain areas.

Greetings,
Catfish


P.S. Again, Irving's "The cider house rules" is still a good book about this -

gimpy117 12-21-12 10:56 PM
from a civil liberties stand point, why should the government be able to legislate what goes on inside one's body?

People get so worked up about gun control...don't take my guns yada yada, but we think it's okay to pass laws based upon religious standpoints that regulate what somebody's sperm, womb and ovaries ought to be doing?

in my opinion, what I do with my little swimmers inside of a woman is really my business and NOT anybody else's and ESPECIALLY not uncle sams

Tribesman 12-22-12 03:41 AM
Quote:
from a civil liberties stand point, why should the government be able to legislate what goes on inside one's body?
Because it is a medical issue and medical practice is covered by laws.


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