China is a such a great business partner.

China is what it is, I am sorry that the worlds "greatest nation" and "greatest people" have been powerless to do anything about it for the past 60 years apart from bend over and kiss their.......

Yet you still you have to be diplomatic with the chinese, otherwise they could just stop buying your US treasury bonds and then the greatest nation on earth will have the greatest bankrupcy on earth. :hmmm: Say what you like about China, but weather you like it or not they are playing a big part in keeping the USA afloat at the moment.

Yep, can you say butt clentch, wow a government that might have to live within it's means :har::har::har::har::har::har::har: socialism it's great till you run out someone elses money, 16 trillion dollars in debt I know none of it has trickled down to me or others I know.

wow the faults of socialism and the perils of mythical trickle down free market economics all in one rant
Confused much?


Yes, when the current mission is begging for china to relax its exchange rates to make American exports more competative and begging for them to sell more resources on the open market so America can buy them for the high tech industries and begging for them to buy more US goods to lessen the trade defecit and begging for them to keep a muzzle on their pet lunatic in Pyongyang and begging for them to stop playing silly buggers in east africa then it does suggest you have to be very diplomatic.

You make a very broad generalisation there, after all this debt did not appear overnight as soon as Obama was elected. Furthermore, if one compares the current debt as a percentage of GDP with that held during World War II and the Roosevelt years then it's actually a drop in the ocean. Of course, US GDP was lower back then so it's hard to scale it accordingly.

I believe that it's agreed upon that this 16 trillion dollar debt started with the race to outspend the Soviet Union, which ultimately destroyed itself trying to keep up. Looking at a graph of Gross debt/Public debt, and even one of debt/GDP you can clearly see that the graph was in a downward motion until around the early 1980s when it starts going up again.
However, if you look at the Outlay vs Revenue graph you can see that during the 1990s Revenue outstripped Outlay and consequently the debt began to decrease, and then post-2001 the Outlay went up again and here we are.

So, one cannot really link it to one particular president or party, certainly there are a couple that one could link it to if they particularly wanted, but then you have to also look at who controlled the Senate and Congress during that period.

This makes a good graph:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._1901-2010.png

As you can see, debt went down in the 104-106 Senate which was Republican lead, but the President was a Democrat, likewise you can have a democrat President but a Republican Senate/Congress and have the debt go down or up. Socialism just does not come into it. Ambitious schemes that you simply cannot pay for comes into it, whether that is a national welfare scheme, or trying to build a bigger military than you can afford to run. Both sides are at fault, and the sooner that bi-partisan politics is put to bed and the two sides actually co-operate on the matter then the sooner the US can set about reducing the debt.
I know, pot kettle black, the UK isn't exactly a shining example of cross-party co-operation, and we're just as sick of it as you are. Most Politicians these days have forgotten who they were elected by, who they were elected to serve, and that they're there not to line their own pockets. Which is why voter epathy is on the rise in some countries, and more extremist groups are on the rise in others as people are just simply fed up of the status quo and they look for alternatives, be it Geert Wilders, Hollande or the Tea Party.

The whole problem of this is, We the People didn't ask for this, we didn' t tell the government that it was ok to spend us into oblivion, when we told them to stop they spent more, now we got this knot head in the white house saying that they got too redistrabute wealth, so if any of you smart guys can show me where in the constitution it says the President can redistrabute wealth, I'll stand down.

Yes, but surely unless he uses an Executive Decision he can't 'redistribute wealth' without putting it through Congress and the Senate, which, by the Constitution:

As for not asking for it, well, I'm sure many people cheered on Ronald Reagan when he increased the military budget to challenge the Soviet Union, and many people have cheered on a better American welfare system. When you say 'The people' it's a very big generalisation, because, as anyone will tell you, if a President gets it right, then people will forget his mistakes, and if he gets it wrong then his mistakes won't be forgotten.

Out of interest though, when did 'The people' tell the US government to stop spending? Furthermore, would 'The people' have accepted the cut in the standard of living or the loss of military prowness that such cuts would have entailed?

Dont stand down, I think your on the right track with this, though you must also then accept that also no where in the consitution does it say you can print money, sacrafice liberty for security or invade other countries etc ;)

Ron Pauls your man when it comes to following the constitution, While I'm not a fellow American, I got to say that Ron paul makes more sense to me than just about any politican i can think of in my life time. in fact Im kinda jealous that we dont have a Ron Paul type guy in the UK.
I dont agree with RP on absolutley everything, (no one person is ever 100% right on everything) but Imho he seems to be a step in the right direction for America at this point in time (and possibly for most of the western world too)
Whats the alternative, Romney or Obama? or 'Robama' as they are refered to now - since they are one in the same. A pair of pro big government flip-floppers sponsored by Goldman $achs who are both more than happy to trample the constitution into the mud :). You can pretty much tell what you will get from a president or leader, going by their track record rather than what they will tell you. Obama is a bad president, but Mitt Romney is Joke too, does this clown actually have an opinion on anything?

I used to consider my self center-left, but if RP represents true conserveratism, you can consider me converted. Honestely though, isn't all this Left vs Right wing politics in western democracy is pretty much dead?
Isn't it just a puppet show they continue to play out for all the little people like us, so that we naively believe we actually have some democratic power over government? when in fact we pretty much have our two party dictatorships that have largely sold them selves out to the highest bidder. Mega Banks/Oil companies/Arms manufacturers etc.
Whoever is in power, it never really changes does it? Our governments continue to expand, chip away at our civil liberties (by fear mongering) and gradually gain more and more control over all different aspects of our lives.
Its not that governments and mega co-orperations are all pure evil, its simply a problem of greed and corruption... That unfortunatley is just the way alot of us human beings roll..
But anyway its pretty obvious that the game is rigged.

Also a great quote I heard recently:
"Congressmen should wear NASCAR uniforms so we can see who their sponsors are" :D

And as such he has not been infracted, nor has he been in danger of any moderating action. I simply reminded him of basic internet mores that, if adhered to, will cause the membership to take him more seriously. Things like posting links to articles, using punctuation and even capitalizing proper nouns are little things that mean a lot in the long run.

Just some guiding tidbits from the Takeda School of Goodposting.

Gee thanks guys, now I'm all misty eyed now where is that hanky. Now comes the hard part we must say, no to this madness, here say it with me, no, see how easy that was, rolls right off the tongue, now here's something alittle harder WE THE PEOPLE SAY NO TO THIS MADNESS. let it be heard around the world, we are all in this together, you all got countries to save, and to hell with the new world order if it applies. A little bit over the top that's what I thought http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayO1wtXbh_Q