SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - EU deal announced

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1776082)

the name of the system is simple: internalizing all profits, externalizing all costs: the gains for the profiteers, the burdens for the tax payer; the chances for the profiteers, the risks for the tax payer.

So why call the kid free market economy, either socialize profits and losses or nothing at all. The next speculation wave will come, with folks betting against the next Euro-zone states. Nothing we can do, say our wise leaders, but use more money to bet against the betters...:nope:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1776082)

And economics is no science. You need more psychology than economic classes to understand it.

I hate it too when those oracles and con artists call themselves scientists.
Actually the course I had was more about psychology and management training than anything else, the scientific (mathematic) part is nothing more than income - expenses = profit. :DL

btw: did you read the thing about the 24 billion Euro our govenment discovered today at the Hypo Real Estate? They didn't discover it before, because of bad balance sheet accounting - unglaublich, those economic "experts"! :damn:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 1776070)

This is probably why no referendum has been done, because we are so far down in this hole that there is no way out, so we just keep digging and hope we reach Australia rather than the molten lava of the Earths core.

There are easier ways of getting here you know.
http://www.businessreviewaustralia.c...0-airbus_0.jpg
:O:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin (Post 1776090)

btw: did you read the thing about the 24 billion Euro our govenment discovered today at the Hypo Real Estate? They didn't discover it before, because of bad balance sheet accounting - unglaublich, those economic "experts"! :damn:

24 is old. It is now 55 billion.

Reminds me of the Greeks two weeks ago, when all of a sudden they discovered some financial reserves of their own - when they did not get the crdit they were waiting for.

Is this the occupy subsim street thread, you "hippies"? :-)

Maybe it's time to bring the British Empire back and the Holy Roman Empire.

The French can take turns fighting the both. Britain gets the USA and some of Canada back, sorry the French gets Montreal, unless you want to kick them out again.

The HRE (Germany) gets to have whatever land they take from the French.

Deal? Shake hands...fast!

Its time we got medieval.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1776088)

Since some time, I am no longer convinced of this. It seems it solves not much, compared to for example a feudal system. It seems to always create corruption on big big big scale.

You can favour dfe,mocracy if people would vote reasonable, respionsibly people into offices, but it seems that doesn'T happen often. On the other hand, you can happen to end up with a a reasonable and responsible guy in rule in a feudal system, too. So the only thing that democracy seems to make different opver a feudal system is that by voting results it gives proof for the stupidity of the crowds who vote for those they then complain about. In a feudal system, ther stupidity of the crowd has the charm of never being proven beyond the level of rumour, assumption and mere claim.

The ancient citizens of Athens already were desperate over their democracy not solving the issue of corruption that they hoped to get rid of by introducing corruption. They had a lottery to force random citizens into offices. They said: if our votes cannot counter the threat of corrupt people gaining offices, then at least we can include an element of chance and hopefully achieve a normal, more balanced probability-distribution for people being corrupt and not beign corrupt ending up in power. But it did not work. Most random-chance office holders were incompetent to fulfill their new dfuties, or found it impossible tpo feed their families and fill the office'S duties at the same time. So they payed members of a self-forming, self-declaring "elite" to govern in their place and take the burden of freedom and responsibility away from them again. And so - corrupt elites snkeaked back into power, through the backdoor, but still - with an intended invitation in their hand.

The only way to fight corruption in government is to have no government and maybe indeed having an anarchic system. But that would open door and gate for jungle law of the strongest, and uncountered monopolism. So even this "solution" is just illusive.

Honstely said, I have no idea how to solve this probvölpem. It seems to be part of human nature and dualistic conceptions of what life and world are. And where there is light, you have darkness as well, and every force has an equal opposite force.

That is the kicker, the 60 trillion dollar question, how do you solve a problem like humanity? :haha: Still, to be fair to democracy, I'd much rather live under it than under something like a Communist dictatorship, or a Islamic theocracy, at least there are a bit more bread and circuses under a democracy, keeps the serfs from realising that their entire government is a pile of rubbish.

German story on Greece - after the haircut is before the haircut. You can forsee already now, no, you can KNOW for sure that after the deal now Greece will be off worse than before this deal. ICF and EU are once again hilariously and hysterically over-optimistic in their statements.

Greece will fall. And since the EU is unable to prevcent this, but will headlessly destroy its own last reserves in trying it nevertheless, one can take it for sure that Italy, Spain, and maybe some others also, will fall too, causing even mnore mess in Europe. Even France to me is a high risk candidate. And Germany is not safe, too. The "markets" already bet against it, our state credits already have become more expensive, house builders need to pay higher interest. This will accelerate explosively once the first rating agency indeed decreases Germany'S top rating - a step already threatened.

In other words: we must start to consider thinking of Europe as a failed state now, too.

We would need an economically cooperating, coordinating Europe, since not even the German economy is strong enough to hold its grounds against Brasil, India, China in the near future. The cheap-wages-countries will simply flush us away. A cooperating and coordinatring europe is a must. But not in the form it has been designed over the past 20 years, as an ideoloigy-driven project leading far beyond the economic needs, ruled by incompetent leaders, lobbyists and bureaucrats. This EU is not potent to stem the tide. In fact it is accelerating the shifting of balances against us, by exporting its exploding debts to its rivals, smoothing the way for us needing to make even more economic concessions to them: to their growing advantage and our growing disadvantage. Great.

Quote:

George Soros attacks Brussels rescue deal
Veteran investor George Soros has attacked the lack of leadership at the top of the eurozone and said that the new Brussels "deal" to solve the debt crisis will only last between "one day and three months".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...scue-deal.html

Soros probably is right, sometimes he really is, but his motives to talk the EU into more spending frenzy are anything but noble and altruistic.

He wants the EU tax payers to safe his own personal wealth. That's all.

A fat cat playing socialist as a hobby. Well, he can afford it.

I open the official subsim betting office. Bets are not accepted for Greece, since its fate is already decided. But you can bet who is next: Portugal before or Italy, or the other way around. You also can bet if after that Spain comes before France, or the other way around. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1776840)

Yes....I fully agree :yep:

I'll go for Italy next :DL

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna (Post 1776914)

Yes....I fully agree :yep:

I'll go for Italy next :DL

I would say Portugal first, causing a rippling effect to rip Spain out.

France is safe, they are in "the club"

In all sadness the Euro currency is to cause for this. The "money flexibility" (inflation, deflation, interest rates etc) will always be skewed in favor of the dominant financial bearer(s).

Being Germany and France. If the Greeks were still on the Drachma it would have allowed them to take action independant of the rest of the EU.

In other words, cuz I suck at making sense sometimes, What works great in Britain, may not work well in the Czeck Republic. What is great for Germany, could be ruinous to another...Money is not free, in order for people to win, some have to lose.

They could have still sunk, but we don't know... This Euro thing is silly, culture is still a factor in todays money oriented society. Whats good for the goose isn't good for the gander, as they say.

Quote:

Greece's prime minister has called a referendum on the new EU rescue package, as a leading economist tells Sky News a no vote would be a disaster for the eurozone.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/greek-pm-ca...182342832.html

Go with No and stick it to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED (Post 1777768)

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/greek-pm-ca...182342832.html

Go with No and stick it to them.

Agreed....the ungrateful basums.

They are starting to look at protecting themselves :o

I love it! Sounds like the most promising bet since long to blow apart the Eurozone!

The inevitable stock market downturn is the current consequence....

Quote:

"Other countries are making considerable sacrifices for decades of mismanagement and poor leadership in Greece."
He added that the only thing to do now would be to prepare for the Greek state to be insolvent and try to limit the damage to Europe's banking system.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15533940