:yep: Depends on how the firearm is employed by the person using it.

I wonder if the driving factor behind crime rate is poverty or race. I would submit that it's pretty bigoted to ascribe higher crime rates solely to the presence of (insert whatever minority you're targeting) in a location.

I think much of the point about firearms is the inherent intent. A rock, a pencil or a vehicle can be used as weapons, but that potential is not realized until the intent is to use them as such is followed upon. A firearm, by contrast, is manufactured explicitly to be used as a weapon. The firearm's first and only purpose is to kill something; there is no alternative use. There is always a danger when using such an object, trained or not. It is no different than a martial arts master using a weapon that he has trained on. Even the most skilled users suffer accidents.

It's a weapon I sure hope it's dangerous. Stop or I'll shoot you with my feather gun doesn't really work well.

It's fact, though. If a minority has a 10X homicide rate, their presence in an area will obviously increase the average homicide rate for whatever city. That's why it's the "cause" of bad crime rates. Simple math. The why for the given minority is another question entirely.

That's all I'm saying, I don't recall making an argument as to the CAUSE, though since the rate for certain demographics is higher regardless of income level, it is likely a cultural issue (only a moron would suggest that somehow gun violence was heritable, lol).

A possible cultural problem is lack of male parents. Stats show that kids without a dad are vastly more likely to be convicted of a felony in their lifetime (by some unreal-sounding multiple, not just a minor %). More than 80% of black kids are born out of wedlock.

It's clear that it is not simply poverty (my dad was bron during the Depression, and he didn't engage in drive-by shootings, and guns were far easier to get back then than now).

I'd add that since gun control is unconstitutional in the US in the first place, why not suggest other unconstitutional gun laws if the goal is not constitutionality, but the pragmatism of lowering homicide rates?

You could for example, ban blacks, or anyone with a spanish surname from owning firearms since their rate of using them violently is so very much higher. This would certainly have the desired, pragmatic effect, right? Oh, wait, that's clearly not "equal protection." OTOH, if you are willing to throw the 2d Amendment into the trash, why not throw the 14th in there as well?

(for the reading impaired, I'm not actually suggesting that we throw ANY Amendments in the trash, I want all of them in place assuming they are not repealed).

I am all for gun rights, own several.

I know gun dealers, people that just travel to shows with loads of guns without a gun shop are licensed same as in house gun shops. As far as I'm concerned to sell at a gun show, you have to have a gun shop, a legal building open to the public. We have so many dealers selling out of the back of cars that really aren't professionals, where as shop sellers have places open to the public, there when you need them, shooting ranges, safety training, repair. These are serious people that are professional and qualified, not just trying to make a buck.

I see no problem with waiting periods for certain firearms, required training, ect. I have a conceal permit here in NC, although I rarely carry one, but I believe we need more laws and training for concealed carry. When I got mine all I had to do was get a friend in law enforcement sign for me and pass the legal requirements.

The only thing that would happen if you banned guns, it would all go underground. Like booze of the past and drugs now, if you wanted one it would be easy to get, no record, no training, no waiting....it would be a huge error. I can walk on any constuction site and buy a dozen guns for hardly anything...

First thing, NYC cops had no business running a sting in AZ anyway.Bloomberg is a liberal piece of garbage who thinks having an I behind his name helps him.Yea lets just turn the whole country into NY where the criminals have guns and most people do not so can not protect themselves.

There was a case in my hometown this past weekend where a 72 year old man answered the door and some punk 17 year old hit him in the head with a baseball bat.The scumbag and two other idiots then tried to enter the man's home, he pulled out a gun and shot two of them, the other ran.All have been arrested.

What if that man had not been in Florida but in some state with draconian gun laws? Good chance he would be dead.Oh yea, his older sister was also in the home.Guns have a role, thus why they are part of our constitution.

Guns outlawed.
Like booze of the past or drugs today, sales go underground, no records, no safety training.
End result, everyone that still wants a gun will have one, just no records of it.

@Tater

Who was talking about the shooter?
Its about the other people at the scene who were armed, they didn't accomplish anything much did they.
One citizen in particular did show real responsibility though, he hesitated when he saw a man with a gun as he was unsure if he was the nutter or not, he also decided that he had better not draw his own weapon in case someone else with a gun thought he was a nutter.
Not very effective in the realms of protection though is it.

Are they that complicated as to show the places he thinks are safer are a hell of a lot worse than the area he thinks is dodgy?
Are they that complicated so as to produce results which are counter to his perceptions on such a consistant and marked scale right across the board?


Bubbles
Idiot punks, after all when the victims may have a gun you better be damn sure to kill them before you try and enter their property:hmmm:

@Armistead
Has anyone here really mentioned such a silly idea as an outright ban on firearms?

AMEN Brother. Fear a government that fears your gun rights.

the government has alien technology from the reptilians which renders all guns useless so the government doesn't fear guns it just pretends to.

Here's my idea

Instead of placing additional burdens on the gun dealers by reporting on citizens, creating and filing even more paperwork at the time of a purchase. How about using the technology available to us today. I bet a system already in place such as the one used in the issuance of Transportation Workers Identification Cards (TWIC) would be able to work for this too. Though separate from and under a different name of course.

Government can make it known it doesn't care how many firearms you want to purchase. Just that if anyone would want to exercise their 2nd amendment right. They must simply fill out an application with the ATF. This application would have the same information any gun dealer is already required to collect for ATF at the time of a purchase.

But the potential buyer now just has to surrender this information only once and to ATF directly. The application once submitted now can be reviewed and the time taken to check the applicant history for priors and any other kind of shady past.

Once approved a photo ID card is issued. Now a buyer must present this card to the gun dealer at the time of purchase. The dealer too needs to be able to scan this information directly to ATF at the time of purchase.

This card would not give the buyer permission to purchase anytime. The buyer is still subject to cooling off periods. Nor would it give the buyer the ability to purchase an unlimited number of firearms, not unless he wants to pay for it, of course.

Additional information on the application could include the number of firearms the buyer intends to purchase, sell or transfer in a given period of time. This could prove useful for several reasons. 1. it would determine application processing fees, if someone wants to be able to buy 100 firearms he will have to pay a heck of a lot more than some one who want to just buy one; 2. that person who estimates 100 rifles in a given period of time on his application would obviously raise eyebrows to ATF before a card is even issued; 3. A buyer could not purchase more firearms than what his estimate said on the application. This would be found out at the dealer when he scans the card at his place of business

Uncle would be collecting the same information it always has but now it's done electronically and it can give authorities a certain ability to be pro active rather than just reactive.

Ehhh....Whatever point it is you think you're trying to make...you'd probably be best just letting it drop. Cut your losses before you go really sour with things and all that.

That's alright I'm pretty good with a bow, working on getting a crossbow, last I knew a broad head would cut through kevlar, that should get through the hide of our reptilian overlords.:woot:Gun control is being able to hit the target.