Actually, technically very few were civilians. By Imperial Edict, all "men" between the ages of 15 and 65 were already officially conscripted, as were all females 17-47.

So the only civilians were boys under 15, girls under 17, men over 65, and women over 47.

That Japan wanted to end the war is utter nonsense.

That old claim is based on one intercepted message from a diplomat back to Tokyo where he said they should accept. The reply—which was in a code that did not have intercepts declassified until 1996—was an unambiguous "NO." It added that the plan was to bleed the US white on the beaches, THEN sue for peace with the US body count as a negotiating point.

The a-bombs without question saved lives.

Again, all POWs and detainees (civilians) would have been executed in September. Not to mention the fact that Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have simply been firebombed had they not been nuked. The 2d Tokyo fire bomb raid killed more than EITHER a-bomb.

One of the best books dealing with the way the war ended (nitty gritty details from inside the Imperial Palace and IGHQ) is Richard Frank's excellent book, Downfall.

The only constructive thing I've read in this thread so far. I didn't know that, but know I know! :D

(Yay, it's another "what if..?" thread...)

Ah the usual "OMG THE END OF THE WORLD BECAUSE WE APOLOGIZED FOR SOMETHING OLE GRANDPA DID!!!!!"

For some WW2 just wont end. Again I note how some people went nuts over a Admiral from the Navy of Japan saying a prayer and a saying of peace at the site of a discovered minisub that had gotten into Pearl and Fired its torpedoes.

Can you be more specified,
 

(Yay, it's another "what if..?" thread...)[/QUOTE] for your comment :hmmm:

:up:

I wouldn't be opposed to an apology. An apology doesn't necessarily mean that it shouldn't have happened. It can mean that we're sorry it had to happen.

Exactly.

Hadn't heard about that, when did it happen?

THIS. Anytime anyone from japan insinuates they want an apology for the A Bombs, someone should mention all the war crimes they were guilty of in WW2. From "comfort women" to The rape of Nanking, to Unit 731, the list goes on, but Pearl Harbor may as well reside on that list too.

When Japan owns up to everything it had done; then, and only then, should anybody start thinking about an "apology" for Fat man and little boy.

for your comment :hmmm:[/QUOTE]

"What if we didn't dropped the bomb". "What if we invaded Japan?"

"The bombs saved lives". "The bombs killed thousands".

This may not be the purpose of the thread but this is what I see.

That's all good to speculate but it's been done a great number of times I feel, and, quite frankly, I'm getting tired of it...it happened 65 years ago, yet people still feel it's time to debate how it was good/bad to drop the bomb, and what it would have meant not to drop it. The americans dropped the bombs, so there we are.

Interesting that so many people on the Internet knows exactly what would've happened, and exactly how many people would've died if this or that didn't happen...

Great load of historians too!

Right, it was not meaning to be offensive,
 

"What if we didn't dropped the bomb". "What if we invaded Japan?"

"The bombs saved lives". "The bombs killed thousands".

This may not be the purpose of the thread but this is what I see.

That's all good to speculate but it's been done a great number of times I feel, and, quite frankly, I'm getting tired of it...it happened 65 years ago, yet people still feel it's time to debate how it was good/bad to drop the bomb, and what it would have meant not to drop it. The americans dropped the bombs, so there we are.

Interesting that so many people on the Internet knows exactly what would've happened, and exactly how many people would've died if this or that didn't happen...

Great load of historians too![/QUOTE] in any way, but you have good views, and perspectives! :yep:

Damn that quote was messed up, fixed.

Anyway, this discussion pops up every single time a thread about this subject is started...

Well, it really wouldn't be such a big deal if, as Ducimus pointed out, we were dealing with a country that acknowledged it's attrocities committed against a multitude of peoples and nations.

Yeah, that's my point! Same discussion, same arguments. And the arguments often have that air of "this is absolute, no other possible explanation exists". I'm not overly fond of this. While discussing alternative history may be fun it certainly isn't anything you can claim to be an expert of, since you're discussing things that never could happen, since they never actually happened. You can claim that something was more probable to happen, but you cannot say that it would definitely happen. Same goes for predicting the future. Imagine if every single prediction turned out to be true. Would be one messed up world...