SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - What does elenaiba say...

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- - What does elenaiba say... (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163099)

I wondered if we refunded this game whether it would send a message to Dan's managers that this release state is unacceptable.

what does everyone think?

thanks also Dan for your honesty.

I have hopes that SH5 will be better for each patch that is released and later with mods it will probably surpass SH3/GWX3.

When designing a game/simulation I am sure there is a lot of critical decisions (thanks to limited time, resources and budget) to be made and perhaps leave some stuff open for modding and concentrate on the stuff that has the greatest impact for all players of these type of games.

I don't see it as a cheap way for UBI to get away from putting every wish into the game but it's rather a bold step of a publisher to allow modding (and make it easy and also make tools for it) and there is two sides of this hobby, those who love to purely play and those who love to play as much as they like to be creative and make great mods for a great game/platform.

I had a rough start with SH5, felt the tutorial was bit limited but I got through it and the rest is about learning the game (and not expect everything to be just a upgraded graphics engine for SH3), will most likely run into bugs as I dive deeper ;)

Thanks for the honest post elanaiba.

By the way, has anyone of you heard of a beautiful song played by Thin Lizzy, "Honesty Is No Excuse"? I am still trying to see if it is, in this particular instance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak (Post 1292517)

By the way, has anyone of you heard of a beautiful song played by Thin Lizzy, "Honesty Is No Excuse"? I am still trying to see if it is, in this particular instance.

Yes, I have it on my shelf right here next to "Don't rain on my parade" by the Ubisoft male voice choir.

Thank you for your honesty Dan, I am sure you will in time make SH5 what it should have been on release and thanks for the great mod tools.

Quote:

C - legitimate concerns about some design choices - like for example the interface. Part of these I can understand, but I am not that concerned since most can be fixed easily by modding. Getting a SH4 style interface back in the game is very easy.

This is my major gripe, but I say that knowing that in time, it will be remedied, just like the bugs. The difficult part is the waiting, I was hoping to dive into the game out of the box.

Elanaiba, I appreciated your response. Very principled and courageous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonarman (Post 1292530)

Yes, I have it on my shelf right here next to "Don't rain on my parade" by the Ubisoft male voice choir

I bet the song you are mentioning it have the required potential to be a hit on the music charts!:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak (Post 1292537)

I bet the song you are mentioning it have the required potential to be a hit on the music charts!:)

Judging by your recent posts I'm sure you'd prefer a castratii version!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonarman (Post 1292541)

Judging by your recent posts I'm sure you'd prefer a castratii version!

No, really ... I don't have something particular against the dev team or UBI as a whole. We are the only ones to blame, because we've bought the game, the previews were very clear. The only think I expect is some honesty from the devs. I am not sure that the game can be modded and turned into a simulator, but I hope. Very little, but I do. That's why I am making such a fuss, to wake them up a little from their dreams. Alexandru Gris (the project manager) has taken me as a fool and told me: "You'll be amazed by this game!!!", just a couple of weeks before the release. That was one thing that annoyed me, to be taken as a fool. If he would have said to me: "OK, sucker, this game is crap, we know that, we are trying to sell it to casual players, but maybe in time we will manage to put the game on its feet somehow, but not now, you must understand that we need money first and maybe only after that, art and principles", I swear that I would have been totally on silent running on this forum. This kind of approach is good when you are speaking to a 10 years old child, when you are trying to fool him, it was not suitable for me. So, I feel ripped off in some degree. Don't accuse me for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba (Post 1292441)

Well, I cannot post everything that I could say, indeed. But still:

Negative Feedback received about Silent Hunter generally fits into the following categories:

A - wrong expectations (some thing are just not in the scope of sh5)
B - legitimate concerns about bugs and unfinished features - Most are NOT news to me, since I have a list bigger than the forum. Trust me, you cannot match my expectations - but then again, the same could be said by most of the serious, passionate game developers out there.
C - legitimate concerns about some design choices - like for example the interface. Part of these I can understand, but I am not that concerned since most can be fixed easily by modding. Getting a SH4 style interface back in the game is very easy.

As I was saying in another thread, I have no reservations that WITH TIME (equal patches + mods) this will be THE ONLY SUBSIM TO PLAY. Calling this game arcade is wrong, its no more arcade than SH3 or 4. Calling this an RPG is partly wrong, is simply as simulation as the games before but with an extra layer of RPG like crew development.

I am not at all happy with the current state of the RPG parts (long story) but:
a) nobody is forcing people to use them
b) they can be modded into something more realistic

I will stand by the concept of the RPG parts any day, because I have read enough books to understand that some things that happen in war are simply not justified by technical specifications and field manuals. At some point the man is the one that matters the most.

Before I close this down, I have two more things to say:

1) Ubisoft is a company, of which Ubisoft Romania is a part. Please stop separating the two. Not everything that is good is our merit, not everything that is bad is "the suits" fault. I, of all people, have my parts in the failures of SH5. The people "high up" could have simply decided not to do another SH, just as you guys can choose not to buy.

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

So, for my final statement of the day, NO, I am not happy with the state of SH5. Of course, except for SH3 - which was not perfect either - I have never been happy with the release of any of my projects.

I have much trust in the potential of SH5, but I am not a fortune teller. Did I quit my job after the launch? No. Am I not a man? I wonder.

People might not buy the game, miss on fun, and not suffer any problems that the game has at the moment. But for the guys that did invest their trust in us, I'd say they need us here.

Yes, Gunnodayak, it took me time to write this long answer, and I waited for the lunchbreak in order not to disturb my current work assignments.

- Respect :up:

Maybe its our dreams, Gunno. What makes you think they dream instead of knowing exactly where the game stands now and will stand after some time due to patching?

Publisher deadlines have been killers for many games before. Some games recovered, some did not.
SH3 did for certain and to a lesser extent SH4 did as well. So why shouldn't SH5 recover as well? We do have a strong community here which have produced some wonderful work before.

The only thing you could ask is why do we have to put up with unfinished games these days? But the next question is wether that's the devs or the publisher's fault?
It's the publisher's in most cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak (Post 1292551)

That's why I am making such a fuss, to wake them up a little from their dreams.

Ok, because they need your enlightenment. :o

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak (Post 1292551)

No, really ... I don't have something particular against the dev team or UBI as a whole. We are the only ones to blame, because we've bought the game,

Is your dispenser empty again? I'll have housekeeping fill it right away!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Méo (Post 1292558)

Ok, because they need your enlightenment. :o

I am sure they need that, if only just for being more grateful to you, the ones that supports them unconditionally! I can take the position of the "bad" guy, if you want that, even if I am not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba (Post 1292441)

-----------------------------

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

So, for my final statement of the day, NO, I am not happy with the state of SH5. Of course, except for SH3 - which was not perfect either - I have never been happy with the release of any of my projects.

My friend, you're right.

I do not see it all so negative.
I recall that created by a mod, and have incorporated it into the game.
That brings a lot of work and patience, these efforts to realize.
Then one sees what has created and suddenly remembers that one has not achieved the goal of what I wanted to achieve.

Why should this not be another case of our friends.
It's always a learning process we are engaged.

With such a complex work of SH5 simulation, I take my hat:salute:
What the guys have done in the short time.
This is a tremendous achievement.
Even a beginning of the expansion of the New Silent Hunter generation.

But I do not know a single game that has no errors.:timeout:
This gives us again the occasion a Patsch get

And maybe the possibility of getting an ADD ON.:hmmm:

That means we are not at the end, we are at the beginning
A simulation of a lot more offers than SH3 or SH4.
Now really is not yet aware of us because we are too much
To see the visual. But under the hood that can much more
When we think.

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Mein Freund du hast recht.

Ich sehe das alles nicht so negativ.
Ich erinnere die, die ein Mod. erschaffen haben, und es in das Game eingebaut haben.
Das es sehr viel Arbeit und Geduld bringt diese Anstrengungen zu realisieren.
Dann Sieht man das was man erschaffen hat und merkt auf einmal das man das Ziel nicht erreicht hat was man erreichen wollte.
Warum soll das Bei unseren Freunden nicht anderes sein.
Es ist immer wieder ein Lernprozess der uns beschäftigt.

Bei so einer Komplexen Arbeit der SH5 Simulation, ziehe ich meinen Hut
Was die Jungs in der kurzen Zeit geleistet haben.
Das ist einen Enorme Leistung.
Auch ein Begin der Erweiterung der Neuen Silent Hunter Generation.

Ich aber kenne kein einziges Spiel das keine Fehler hat.
Das gibt uns wieder die Gelegenheit einen Patsch zu bekommen

Und vielleicht die Möglichkeit einen ADD ON zu bekommen.
Das bedeutet wir sind nicht am Ende, wir sind am Anfang

Einer Simulation die Wesentlich mehr bietet als SH3 oder SH4.
Nun so richtig ist uns das noch nicht bewusst weil wir uns zu sehr
An das Optische fesseln. Aber unter der Haube kann das viel mehr
Als wir denken.