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-   -   Gun safety, Gun thoughts and Gun Control and my shiny new CZ-75B! (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=159990)

Sailor Steve 01-08-10 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee (Post 1232599)
Personally, I think the first photo is photoshopped.
If it isn't the recoil is going to turn that guy's whole body into pulp!
:rotfl2:

Platapus 01-08-10 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freiwillige (Post 1232522)
The prices are good and Col. Jeff Cooper considered it the finest firearm in that calibre in the world. That says alot coming from a Colt M1911 guy.

Wow to get Cooper to say anything nice about a 9mm is noteworthy! :o

Freiwillige 01-09-10 05:18 PM
Went to the Range today! It was a beautiful day, Bright and sunny with temps in the Mid 70's.

Pulled out the a couple .22 handguns to teach my Girl a bit of gun safety and we target shot some good groups at 10 yards.

Then the CZ came out and performed better than I had expected pulling tighter groupings than either of the Glock's my sister and mother were shooting.

I only put forty rounds through her but she handled them nicely and left a big smile on my Girls face when she had her chance.

CZ-75B gets :yeah:

OneToughHerring 01-09-10 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antikristuseke (Post 1232817)
That may be the case in Greece, but over here firearms laws are very different. Allso being a an active member in the Defence League makes my case even more different than most. I Have my service assault rifle and pistol at home at all times, assembled and loaded magazines nearby with a supply of loose ammo aaswell. If i were not in the defensce league it would still be wasyer for mr to own and carry pistols.
Do you store them in special locked cabinets with the bullets in a another? We have the system where if you're active in the reserve you have the right to buy a semiauto version of the service weapon. But not sure if it's allowed to be kept at home.

I've also heard that in Latvia it's possible to pay a little money and shoot a full auto AK. I guess anything goes in the Baltics. :)

CaptainHaplo 01-09-10 09:19 PM
Since it was mentioned, I have to say my Makarov 9mm has been my prefered carry piece for years. How do you find the balance on the CZ? I have tried the 75b compact (100mm barrel vs 120mm) and found it was not comfortable for me personally. I haven't had a chance to try the 120mm barrel version, but I look forward to it.

Are you sticking with the stock grips? Most designs fare better with rubberized grips, and they are easy to change on most pistols.

To me, the balance and SA trigger pull are the two most important "comfort" factors for how a pistol feels when fired.

Freiwillige 01-09-10 10:05 PM
The stainless steel version already comes with better rubber grips and I like the feel. The balance is great, not to front heavy but with enough meat on her overall to help absorb the recoil a bit. The SA trigger is a dream without much pull or distance and in my opinion superior to the Glock 19C I had fun with as well today. The double action is a bit gritty and not as smooth but I expected that and cant complain to bad. I have read that usage over time really smoths things out.

I am impressed over all with the gun. I still have a soft spot for Makorov chambered pistols as my last two were and will be getting another CZ-82 next. I just love their military simplicity!

Happy Times 01-10-10 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freiwillige (Post 1231985)
Having received my third firearm for Christmas, The First being a Polish surplus P-64 by Radom (Gone 2 weeks after I bought it thanks to my ex who decided to trade it to a dealer to support her habbit:nope:) My second a CZ-82 Czech Surplus (Gone 6 weeks after I bought it to a friend\roomate who was to hold on to it for $100 bucks so I could pay rent, When I got paid to get the gun back the next week as was per our deal, he had the gun no longer as he traded it for weed!:nope:) Man drug users are unreliable!

And now I got a CZ-75B for X-mas. I haven't been to the firing range in a bit and thought I would brush up on gun safety. Ive found four effective easy to remember rules.

1.A firearm is always loaded. (Treat it that way)
2.Never point the muzzle at anything you do not wish to destroy.
3.Never put your finger on the trigger until your ready to shoot.
4.Always be aware of your target and whats beyond it.

So now I will talk about the prolific pictures of idiots on the net who fail in most of those rules while posing for pictures. Common errors while looking gangsta for there myspace photo's are pointing gun at camera man\woman. Fingers on the trigger Etc.

One Photo has a guy pointing his new Glock at his GF and you can see the round loaded in the chamber through the barrel and his finger on the trigger! Now anybody who knows Glock knows that the only safety they have is built into the trigger. The only thing to stop that girl from meeting the God of her choice is less than 1" of trigger pull.:o

So now to the final point of this Topic. I believe in all Americans rights to own a Firearm for sport, protection or the basic exercising of their second amendment rights and from what I have seen gun control doesn't work worth a spit.

So what about having mandatory gun safety classes and a bit of training with each firearms purchase?

Buy a shotgun and have an expert spend an hour with you at the range familiarizing you with the weapon and making sure your competent with it and understand the fundamentals of safety as opposed to all these dumb laws that either take guns away or just give guns away. I mean you have to pass a driving test, why not a firearms responsibility test? Nothing too complex just some basic common sense and firearm familiarity instruction?

Just my thoughts.
I dont think that you have acted responsibly as an gun owner should.

Your points about safety in handling a gun are offcourse true.

The way you lost your previous guns is criminal negligence in nature from your part.:nope:

I would NEVER give MY guns as a pawn for a loan and cant understand why someone would???!!!

As with all or rights there are also responsibilities on the otherside and you have failed, big time.

I would think the police wouldnt be very happy with you, here you wouldnt even get a new gun for a while, if ever.

CaptainHaplo 01-10-10 10:10 AM
Its important for our European friends to realize that gun laws in the US vary not only from their own, but also from state to state.

While I agree that Frei's earlier handling of firearms was less than responsible, such actions in the US do not mean his right to own another is somehow void. In the US, any citizen has the right to own a handgun provided they have no felony conviction or other legal issue that removes that right. This is why background checks are in place.

The majority of difference in the laws revolve around its carry and storage. A person is required, in most states, to take safety classes should they want to pursue a concealed carry permit. But ownership is the US, unlike Europe, is an ingrained right that many people chose to avail themselves of, albeit not always responsibly.

However, Frei's honesty about the earlier issues does indicate that he recognizes the mistakes made, and thus is much less likely to repeat them. Instead of castigating him for things that may have happened many years ago (since I don't think a time table was given), it would be better to simply remind him not to make the same errors.

As for European gun laws, and the desire to register and control every firearm in the US as well, I point to that Hitler used the Weimar Republic's earlier gun and ammunition registration as a means of identifying and confiscating the guns of Jews and opponents.

Both sides of the gun control issue have valid points, but the US has continually leaned toward the rights of the citizen over the rights of the government in most cases.

Its important to remember that guns don't kill people - they are simply tools - it is PEOPLE who use guns to kill others. Guns are not inherently evil, it is the people who use them badly that are. You cannot legislate away "bad" acts, but to penalize and restrict the law abiding does nothing more than put them at a disadvantage. Or, as some like to say - "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them...."

Torvald Von Mansee 01-10-10 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1232948)
If it isn't the recoil is going to turn that guy's whole body into pulp!
:rotfl2:
Maybe he could fire it w/a drawstring or something.

Anyway, it looks like a fine weapon for home defense.

OneToughHerring 01-10-10 10:26 AM
CaptainHaplo,

the guy is pawning his weapons for some drug user who subsequently sells it off and you're hitting us with the hitler-card? Sheesh...

CaptainHaplo 01-10-10 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneToughHerring (Post 1233782)
CaptainHaplo,

the guy is pawning his weapons for some drug user who subsequently sells it off and you're hitting us with the hitler-card? Sheesh...
OK - this is a strawman arguement - and as I posted before - lets examine why.

You say he is pawning his weapons for some drug user. That is not what was stated - and you know it. Frei himself did not pawn his first weapon, but instead intrusted it to his wife - who then pawned it. While he did use bad judgement - he is not the one that sold/pawned the weapon for drugs. In the second instance he trusted a friend to hold the firearm for him, but instead that person pawned the firearm. In neither case did Frei go intentionally put his gun up for sale so that another person could get drugs. He used horrible judgement - we both agree there - but to make a claim that he is somehow "pawning his weapons for some drug user" is an outright fabrication.

As for "hitting with the hitler card" - I simply pointed out historical fact. You can dislike the US laws regarding guns, but there are historical facts that show that total gun and ammunition registration leads to the control and later inaccessibility of those firearms to the citizenry. There are also significant sources that show that crime is HIGHER where the citizenry has no open access to firearms.

We can discuss this topic OTH, but your going to have to stop over-reaching with claims that are not accurate. If you can't debate the realities, then making up things to support your arguement is going to get called out every time.

OneToughHerring 01-10-10 10:51 AM
So what you're saying is actually a worse accusation then what I said. Horrible judgment vs. what I said, what's the difference? You do stuff like that in the past and you're likely to do similar stuff in the future.

I don't really care about the overall situation in the States, you all can shoot each other for all I care. I just don't want the same mentality to spread to my country.

Happy Times 01-10-10 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo (Post 1233791)
OK - this is a strawman arguement - and as I posted before - lets examine why.

You say he is pawning his weapons for some drug user. That is not what was stated - and you know it. Frei himself did not pawn his first weapon, but instead intrusted it to his wife - who then pawned it. While he did use bad judgement - he is not the one that sold/pawned the weapon for drugs. In the second instance he trusted a friend to hold the firearm for him, but instead that person pawned the firearm. In neither case did Frei go intentionally put his gun up for sale so that another person could get drugs. He used horrible judgement - we both agree there - but to make a claim that he is somehow "pawning his weapons for some drug user" is an outright fabrication.

As for "hitting with the hitler card" - I simply pointed out historical fact. You can dislike the US laws regarding guns, but there are historical facts that show that total gun and ammunition registration leads to the control and later inaccessibility of those firearms to the citizenry. There are also significant sources that show that crime is HIGHER where the citizenry has no open access to firearms.

We can discuss this topic OTH, but your going to have to stop over-reaching with claims that are not accurate. If you can't debate the realities, then making up things to support your arguement is going to get called out every time.
I dont have anything against the US gun policy in general, on the contrary.

Maybe i misunderstood but i read it so that he pawned the second gun to a friend for rent money, if that is legal then im wrong in calling it illegal and i apologize.

Im not trying to preach to him, its just that i think loosing ones guns like this does a disservice to us all, even globally, that want guns to be available to responsible citizens.

CaptainHaplo 01-10-10 11:10 AM
Quote:
Horrible judgment vs. what I said, what's the difference?
I respect you don't want the views here predominant in your country. Thats your right. But to compare bad judgement with intentionally putting guns on the street for drugs and saying there is no difference is a bit of a stretch.

Thats like saying your buddy asks to borrow your car to go to work, you let him, and then he goes after work and gets drunk and kills someone. You didn't know he was going to do that. Thats bad judgement though if you knew he had a drinking problem.

Whats the difference? Compare that with taking him to the bar, getting him drunk - then putting the keys in his hand and telling him you will find another way home. There is a rather obvious difference.

Trusting someone and having that trust betrayed is alot different than intentionally committing an act you know is wrong. You tried to infer motives to Frei that you have can't prove. When that failed, you now come up with "whats the difference?" when the difference is obvious.

Instead of jumping into a discussion where you say you:
Quote:
I don't really care about the overall situation in the States, you all can shoot each other for all I care. I just don't want the same mentality to spread to my country.
- perhaps you should just realize that this little thread at Subsim.com isn't likely to suddenly overturn your national thinking on guns - so you can just move on. Unless of course, the statement quoted above was in fact not true - and you do care....:rotfl2:

OneToughHerring 01-10-10 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo (Post 1233806)
I respect you don't want the views here predominant in your country. Thats your right. But to compare bad judgement with intentionally putting guns on the street for drugs and saying there is no difference is a bit of a stretch.

Thats like saying your buddy asks to borrow your car to go to work, you let him, and then he goes after work and gets drunk and kills someone. You didn't know he was going to do that. Thats bad judgement though if you knew he had a drinking problem.
If you can't tell the difference between guns and cars then the situation is worse then I thought.

Quote:
Whats the difference? Compare that with taking him to the bar, getting him drunk - then putting the keys in his hand and telling him you will find another way home. There is a rather obvious difference.

Trusting someone and having that trust betrayed is alot different than intentionally committing an act you know is wrong. You tried to infer motives to Frei that you have can't prove. When that failed, you now come up with "whats the difference?" when the difference is obvious.

Instead of jumping into a discussion where you say you:
- perhaps you should just realize that this little thread at Subsim.com isn't likely to suddenly overturn your national thinking on guns - so you can just move on. Unless of course, the statement quoted above was in fact not true - and you do care....:rotfl2:
Well I have to say I do take a certain pleasure from seeing particularily nasty cases of guns being misused in the States. And there are plenty of these cases pretty much every day. That Americans themselves don't seem to care about what goes in their country and think they can wall themselves in gated communities etc. is just, as Happy Times above said, bad for the whole world.


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