SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Global Recession really over?

SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/index.php)

- General Topics (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=175)

- - Global Recession really over? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=158206)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai (Post 1204655)

Not at all surprising about corporate behavior. You have to remember why corporations are formed. To make money for the principle stockholders/inverters (who are also often upper management). That is their only reason to exist; to turn as much of a profit as they possibly can for the shareholders. Also, investors in corporations are highly protected legally should the company screw up or break the law.

This is why they do all the hideous things they do in the world, and get away with it too. They don't care at all about their employees, or sustainability, or the harm they do, be it environmentally or economically (or both). Their structuring is one of diffused responsibility "I'm not responsible, I am just a shareholder" "I'm not responsible, the shareholders dictate what I do", and thus utterly lacking in ethics or care as well. If they can get labor cheaper someplace else, they will go there. If they can use the local government to further exploit their workers, even better still.

This is the basic nature of capitalism (of which corporations are the spawn of). You exploit those with much less capital (money/power) than you to make you self more capital. You provide the money, they do all the hard work, and you reap the reward. Ideally to make the most capital from your workers you try to find a way of making them totally dependent on you, that way you can dictate what ever terms you like as far as wages and benefits. This is even easier if there is a large pool of unemployed persons available as they in an effort to survive will try to undercut your existing employees. Lastly to keep the workforce from eventually revolting against you, you convince them that if they work hard enough, they can become you (aka the American dream).

This is not to say that all companies and corporations are like this. But unfortunately most of them are. Not a new phenomenon either, this started right at the dawn of capitalism during the industrial revolution.

Agreed. I'm currently writing a paper on corporate social responsibility and how (minimal) govt. regulations and oversight are necessary for the sake of the free market system. Greed is good, but every game must have rules to ensure fair play, or the game collapses.

And in other news, Motor Trend named the 2010 Ford Fushion the Car of the Year, and Ford hit a 2 year high of $9 a share. Drinks are on me :()1:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto_Weddigen (Post 1204581)

Go figure in NZ,I applied for a $35NZD an hour job and there are over 700 applicants for train driving

A relative stable job, that's why. When Railcorp here in NSW did a ad for suburban train drivers, they were hoping to find enough applicants to fill 75 positions. They had 3500 apply.:o That was in January this year. The first started their year long training this week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookworm_020 (Post 1205042)

If I get in,the next year's class ain't due to start till 10/1/2010

Good Luck Otto.

As for corporations, there are 2 schools of thought. Profits... now... without worry about the long term"cost" vs Responsible corporate behavior with a quality product or service will translate into long term profits.

It is PERSONAL greed that drives the first philosophy. A corporation is not evil, because it isn't alive. However, the drives behind it, from those in leadership positions and those who hold sway as stockholders, creates a climate where irresponsible and often unethical "corporate behavior" is rewarded.

This is why I get so tired of people who say "corporations are evil". No they are not. Tell that to the majority of the workers and see what response you get. What is on the wrong side of the tracks is the personal greed at the expense of the customer base, and society, for the profit.

It is companies like Coleman that demonstrate why the other philosophy is the long term winner every time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens (Post 1204892)

So you don't really think laissez faire is the answer then? Or by "minimal" do you mean only the protection of rights (such as intellectual/physical property rights)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis (Post 1205252)

So you don't really think laissez faire is the answer then? Or by "minimal" do you mean only the protection of rights (such as intellectual/physical property rights)?

No, not complete laissez faire. I'm a Roosevelt Republican (Teddy, not that other guy), I contend that anything that has an impact on the people should have some regulations to ensure fair play. Corporations can make all the money they want, that's fine, but in some cases, the bright minds who manage them will resort to fraud and theft to increase their gains, and that hurts the people and businesses that play fair. We need rules, but may they always be as few as possible.

Did anyone watch the Frontline program I posted last week? Just wondering, never saw any feedback on it. :hmmm:

Just watched the news tonight,the news presenter said "ECONOMIC RECESSION IS OVER FOR NEW ZEALAND",how is it over,Hanover Finance has collapsed and lots of housing money lenders have collapsed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto_Weddigen (Post 1205658)

Just watched the news tonight,the news presenter said "ECONOMIC RECESSION IS OVER FOR NEW ZEALAND",how is it over,Hanover Finance has collapsed and lots of housing money lenders have collapsed

I doubt it very much, well un-employment wise its not as its still increasing by the week, i know of people who have lost everything including their home due to never been unemployed always had a job for 20 yrs or more no worries financially till this recession came about and their job goes under and they're in that age bracket where your either too old or to experienced.

I don't know how i do it sometimes, i just manage to keep my head above water each month, its amazing when your psyche kicks in and you find out things about yourself you thought you were never capable off doing.

As long as the internets up and running im pretty much happy :rotfl2:

They just had a news story that the recession is over (almost):har: in oregon. Nevermind that there's no job growth here and we have the second highest un-employment in the nation.
I think they say the same thing every month:shifty:

I guess it all depends on what definition you use for "recession" and how you measure it.

From a German newspaper:Greece teeters on the verge of bankruptcy

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...617915,00.html

Over? It hasn't even begun yet.
Recession? No. The start of a Depression.

Supply and Demand.
Workers are being imported in massive quantities, while jobs are being exported in massive quatities. (They call that Free Trade.) The longterm result is:
More available workers + Less available work = Lower wages.
Translation: Mass poverty, the further erosion of the middle class, a more easily controled peasant class.

A country that no longer produces it's own goods, and imports more than it exports, is on the fast track to the Third World. The reality is that we've been sold out.

Personaly, I always have, and continue to do very well in a bad economy.
Overall, the bad news is that it's going to get alot worse. The only way to turn it around is to restart to produce our own goods and curb immagration. Nobody needs any more competition for the available jobs than they already have.

High tarrifs provide an alternative to government funding from the abused high income tax. They also give domesticly produced goods an advantage over imports. Another plus is that high tarrifs place the tax burden on those corporations, and individuals, that created the present situation, and take it off the individuals who are already struggling to survive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee (Post 1207204)

I figured out where OR and WA are spending all of their stimulus dollars, making highway signs saying how many jobs the state has created.:shifty:

Let'S put it that way: the next bubbles is already being fabricated. Banks have learned nothing and alraedy act as unscrupellous - if not more - as before. National debts are skyrocketing. Dubai.

the only positive thing I see is the Chinese. Although they may be motivated by self-interest (like all others, too), their resistance to American pressure to change their currency policy, in the end adds a stabilising effect to the global financial market, while it would be highly destabilising if they comply and start to make the same mistakes America has done.

Not only is Mandarin the language of the future, but the Yuan could become the currency of the future, too. I think it could even leave the Euro behind.

The euro is a paradox. It is strong, stronger than the dollar. And by that it works to the disadvantage of europe. A result is that many major production companies have started to relocate production capacities from Europe to the US, especially carmakers. I think this effect was not what they aimed at when introducing the Euro. Reminds of the boomeranging of globalisation.

I got a call from KR (New Zealand's Railway) that my application to become a EMU driver has been declined and to make it even more obvious one of the steel companies in New Plymouth have decided to hire immigrants and started sacking NZ'ers working in the factory since the beginning of the year,now how do I survive in NZ without a job,the option is you can get on the dole but it stinks.I have heard from other NZ railfans that the NZ railways have even taken to recruiting immigrants and illegals as well,lots of NZ'ers are already out of work and on the dole (benefit)