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-   -   Luxury Yacht Company Offers Pirate-Hunting Cruises (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=153296)

Skybird 07-01-09 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Stevens (Post 1127070)
I know you were joking but I like the way you merged concepts, very clever. :salute:
I don't understand: what concepts you mean?

Onkel Neal 07-01-09 01:05 PM
About the navy by subscription, solves the problem of having a navy and paying for it.

Letum 07-01-09 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1127066)
A policeman does not look forward to shoot somebody [...]

The soldier or navymean [is motivated by] a wish to serve and or protect hic country, to put it simple.

The mercanery [...] fights for the fee he is payed.

Quite so.

Unlike all these people, the person who pays to hunt pirates does look
froward to shooting someone and that is their motivation.

Aramike 07-01-09 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Stevens (Post 1127072)
Yeah, and you're in a position to fight back.
Exactly. So who's at fault - the attacker or the defender?

What an interesting premise it is to seek a fight but not start one.

Aramike 07-01-09 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letum (Post 1127085)
Quite so.

Unlike all these people, the person who pays to hunt pirates does look
froward to shooting someone and that is their motivation.
Did you consider that they are paying to help stem the problem of piracy, and THAT may be their motivation?

How often is it that the average person can take an international matter into their hands?

Letum 07-01-09 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramike (Post 1127106)
Did you consider that they are paying to help stem the problem of piracy, and THAT may be their motivation?
Yes, I did.
See post #4 of this thread.

Aramike 07-01-09 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letum (Post 1127113)
Yes, I did.
See post #4 of this thread.
I did read that.

I phrased the question poorly. How about this: did you ever consider that they were paying to actually DO something about the international problem of piracy, rather than just to kill people?

SUBMAN1 07-01-09 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1127066)
A policeman does not look forward to shoot somebody, but he hopes he can prevent circumstances were people get shot at. He is ready to shoot at somebody, though (at least he should be). but he is not after it.

The soldier or navymean must take into account much greater probability that he needs to shot at others. His motivation to accept that chance has to do with a wish to serve and or protect hic country, to put it simple.

The mercanery does usually does not fight to protect a country, he fights for the fee he is payed. If the paymenet is right, he shoots. If the payment is not right, he leaves. Ideals, patriotism and altruism have nothign to do with it - it is about money. It is a payed job.

Ceasar, Napolean and several other names in history had very low opinions of mercenaries for the reason that these accepted to volunteer for the madness of masskilling other people for no other motivation than getting money for it.

Mercenaries are not accepted to be regular combatants by international law. They are not protected by the legal status of "prisoner of war", and in case of being captured are treated as oridnary civilians who raised weapons against the victor (for which they can be executed right in place). American, Austrian and Swiss law threatens any national who offers his armed service to another nation with loss of his citizenship. In Germany, recruiting Germans for service in a non-German armed service is under penalty.
A Soldier or Policeman signs up for that very job for the 'action'. People leave the service because of that lack of action. So I don't buy your skewed logic.

BTW, they should be paying these vacationers. That would be more appropriate.

-S

Skybird 07-01-09 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letum (Post 1127085)
Quite so.

Unlike all these people, the person who pays to hunt pirates does look
froward to shooting someone and that is their motivation.
Which for us means dead pirates. Good for us, since our navies and politicians don't get it done, and our companies pay ransom to help fostering the pirate problem and rearm it and strengthen it and increase it's zone of infection.

Killing for money or killing for fun for me does not make much of a difference. It's both offsprings of the same spirit. Those tourists and those pirates I also differ on a superficial level only. The one have money, the others want money. Both give a damn for other people's life. Let them go at each other's throat.

Live with it, Letum, the pirates will not go away if you pay them money, and you won't solve the porblem if oyu do not get your hands dirty. If one would have targetted them with all consequence last summer, it would have been a less bloody mess than if you target them now.

As long as Western nations accept private mercenary companies to which their national military can outsource, neither will I object to bloodtourism - nor do I wish to have personal relations to people booking such tours. I just make pragmatic use of them. Fair enough, although maybe not polite.

There would be no need to do so if politicians in the West would get their acts together. The pirate problem already could be a problem of the past today, if only they would have. But still they don't.

Letum 07-01-09 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramike (Post 1127115)
I did read that.

I phrased the question poorly. How about this: did you ever consider that they were paying to actually DO something about the international problem of piracy, rather than just to kill people?

If that where the case then why hire "special forces" to watch over you as
you shoot at people?
Why not donate the money instead to an anti-piracy program that isn't there
for tourists?

SB: You are a moral void. I can but rank you with other such people.

Aramike 07-01-09 02:59 PM
Quote:
If that where the case then why hire "special forces" to watch over you as
you shoot at people?
To help ensure your safety.
Quote:
Why not donate the money instead to an anti-piracy program that isn't there
for tourists?
Read again: "...paying to actually DO something..."

Letum 07-01-09 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramike (Post 1127162)
To help ensure your safety.Read again: "...paying to actually DO something..."
If you wanted to "actually DO something" then why go on the hunting cruise
when you could actually DO more by sending the money to a effective
anti-piracy scheme.

If by "actually DO something" you mean personally, then your motivation is to
have the experience of shooting at people. If you motivation was to help
merchant shipping then my first paragraph applies.

Aramike 07-01-09 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letum (Post 1127188)
If you wanted to "actually DO something" then why go on the hunting cruise
when you could actually DO more by sending the money to a effective
anti-piracy scheme.

If by "actually DO something" you mean personally, then your motivation is to
have the experience of shooting at people. If you motivation was to help
merchant shipping then my first paragraph applies.
Here you go again, doing this thing where you try to use circular logic to invalidate a point you can't effectively counter.

Let's say, instead of this cruise, I wanted to go overseas and feed the hungry. So I go and cook. Now, I could have just sent money, but I decided to go and actually do something. Does that mean I wanted the experience of cooking?

Umm, no.

Let's please stick to common sense when attempted to discuss topics. Thanks.

Letum 07-01-09 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramike (Post 1127214)
Let's say, instead of this cruise, I wanted to go overseas and feed the hungry. So I go and cook. Now, I could have just sent money, but I decided to go and actually do something. Does that mean I wanted the experience of cooking?

Umm, no.

Well...Yes, I would say it does mean you wanted the experience of feeding
the hungry and there is nothing wrong with that. It's a good experience to
have. If you didn't want that experience, you would not have done it.


The argument isn't circular, it's a fork. i.e. This else that.

Aramike 07-01-09 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letum (Post 1127224)
Well...Yes, I would say it does mean you wanted the experience of feeding
the hungry and there is nothing wrong with that. It's a good experience to
have. If you didn't want that experience, you would not have done it.


The argument isn't circular, it's a fork. i.e. This else that.
But the point is that I wanted the experience of feeding the hungry, and accepted the fact that doing so would mean I will also experience cooking.

Likewise, someone on the pirate cruise may want the experience of stopping pirates and, as such, they will also have to accept that they may end up killing a pirate.

To just make the blanket statement that they want to kill people overly simplifies it, I think.


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