The situation 3 hours ago:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/8099218.stm

Somewhat true, but he's basically above your average member in terms of authority because he's seen as one of the most distinguished members (due in part to several reasons, including extreme devotion to the Moslem faith, an expert amount of knowledge on the Qur'an, and also having passed and proven himself worthy through a few tests).

Think of him as their version of a really high ranking cardinal. He's not exactly like a pope, however, since he's not a Grand Ayatollah. That would go to Khamenei (he's the supreme Iranian leader).

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090614...t-a7ad41d.html

Some more information on the election, by jamming foreign media aren't they basically confessing their guilt in their actions? Isn't it against some sort of treaty to jam civilian satellites?

The problem with this whole situation, for me, is that it's impossible to know what to believe. News reports coming out of Tehran about massive protests, suspected vote-rigging, do not necessarily convince me. It's possible the people want a new leader and the opposition carried the most votes...but it would not shock me if the yahoo Akmadeenajad (sp) they currently have won a majority and the losing party is trying to overthrow him in the street. Who knows?


Britian and the US violated the most holy of democratic principles once before with Iran. I hope we learned our lesson.

Perhaps you can't trust the news reports, but how in the hell did they count all of those votes and announce the winner in just two hours after the polls closed?

Plus the mind set of the nation of Iran's true leader (forgot his name) said several years ago, "Go ahead nuke us ... were going to heaven anyway"

His name is Khamenei. And I would like to see a citation of that statement as that does not sound at all like the language Khamenei uses in his statements.

Second'd.

It seems to me that Ahmadinedschad's "election helpers" were somewhat over-motivated and did their job a little bit too good :cool:.

Although i think he might have won anyway i still find it highly questionable that he got even better result than last time. During the last election there were lots of non-voters due to an obvious lack of (moderate) alternatives but this time they made their cross.

I assume there has been vote-rigging, but I also assume that the West and Mussawi have underestimated the popularity of the conservatives in the rural places of Iran, as I also said it was like 15 years ago. I think evenb without vote-rigging Ahmadinejadh would have won, maybe just not by such a wide margin.

What is true of Turkey, is true for Iran as well: do not conclude from the major huge cities, which are more open and liberal, on the rural areas where the majority of the population lives. In both countries, the population in these latter places are arch-conservative.

It could have been another Iraian leader, because it was about three years ago. I had limited time to search today, perhaps tomorrow I'll have more time.

However I did locate this Iraian student:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080121020057AAcQELh


I also found this ex-Iran/CIA agents comments interesting:

Quote:

Simple, we nuke them before they nuke us. But we won't we'll negotiat with those ..... You put this phrase in quotation marks so go ahead give me the source of these ..... so long as they're going to heaven, and will do anything necessary to ...... 'Ali Khamenei: “When the president of the Iranian people travels to ... pajamasmedia.com/blog/former-cia-agent-in-iran-comes-in-from-the-heat/

Going public for the first time in an article and interview on Pajamas Media, an Iranian who infiltrated Iran's Revolutionary Guard for the CIA accuses the mullahs of orchestrating — among other things — the 1988 explosion of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/former-cia-agent-in-iran-comes-in-from-the-heat/2/

Quote:

Khamenei put out a statement to the world in 2008 that God would punish Iranians if they did not support the country’s disputed nuclear program, and any stop in the continuation of the nuclear work would be against God’s will. Ahmadinejad, in a recent 2008 speech, told the audience that the “enemy” (referring to the U.S. and Israel) and their superficial power are on a path to destruction, and that the countdown to their total destruction has begun.

The only reason that the Chinese reaction was effective was because they quietly gave the people what they wanted, ie free markets, so long as they kept the Party in power and shut up about the Tiananmen Square incident. The mullahs cannot do this, as the protesters seek an end to Islamic law, which would, naturally, negate the mullahs' power.

The Iranian political system is no demoicracy, and it is not available to the reach of attempts aiming at reforming it. One should not have illusions about this grim truth. the mullahs hold the power in their fists, and the revolutionary guards are a tremendously powerful factor, controlling major parts of the military, the industry, the nuclear industry, telecommunication and infrastructure. there also is a nu,mber of addiotnal indepedant militias that are all very loyal to the established order and islamic rule. Iran's counter-internet and counter-computer-espionage capabilities are said to rank amongst the world's very top (you have seen it these days, they have proven to be at least as efficient as the Chinese, some say they acted even faster, and more substantially). All candidates allowed to elections had been set up by the Guardian Council, and all of them are conservative Islamic hardliners, including Mussawi (who also strictly defends the Iranian nuclear program, like Ahmadinejadh). None of them ever has expressed anything that could be understood as a signal he intents to reform the system. and as a president they also would not be in a powerful enough position to do so. And again, all of them, including Mussawi, are Islamic hardliners.

seen that way, there have been no free democratic elections from the very beginning, nor is there any chance for a more democratic Iran without a civil war first that destroys the ruling order.

And Ahmadinejadh, well, one should know that short before the elections his spiritual mentor Ayatollah Mesabah-Yazdi theologically legitimated the rigging of elections if the people did not vote correctly - as desired, that is. An according letter by the respectable holy bastard was published in newspapers short before the elections, and he has not rejected that it was by him. He had argued on occasions before that elections should not be held anymore anyway, since people are too stupid to vote correctly anyway.

but if Obama thought he would have easier play with Mussawi, then HE WAS TOTALLY WRONG from the very beginning.

If you take all this together, then we should not read too much into current events over there. there never was and still is no realistic chance for a more liberal, more open, more free, more democratic Iran. The name of the president is almost irrelevant. The confrontation with the West would continue under a president Mussawi. The nuclear program is not negotiable for him as well. Some more clever, more lulling, less aggressive rehtorics, some superficial cosemtic changes for the street of voters to please the call for grater feeedoms - that would be it. In a way it would be even more difficult with Mussawi than with Ahmadinejadh. Because Ahmadinejadh will not fool anyone in the West anymore.

Damn the old mullahs. I would line them up at the wall for the unexcusable crime they commit against the young generations, and crippling them and keeping them in chains, isolation and opression.

60% of their population is of age 30 or younger. That makes for a huge potential of explosive social, cultural and demographic energy. I count myself into the camp that believes that there is a link between a young demographic structure of a society, patriarchalic orientations, and aggressive expansionism of a given culture. Although it is a grim hope, maybe it is the only hope indeed that this energy will break out indeed and turn against Iran itself. Whether this will wash away the old regime, is somethign else. Unfortunately, the Iranian regime structure is extremely tough and very strong. I see no chance for real change without massive violence.

And a guy like Mussawi - is no change at all.

Why is it I'm never surprised how these elections turn out. :yawn:

http://i41.tinypic.com/ossair.jpg

Viva La Revolution :3

And do you need any more reason to support the rioters?: :salute:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5...7ac81972d2.jpg

First twittered revolution it seems.

http://emsenn.com/iran.php
http://picfog.com/search/IranElection
http://iran.twazzup.com/

Well, I've changed my mind.
Looks like things where dodgy indeed.