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-   -   Goverment Motors and the Chinese (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151807)

Schroeder 05-15-09 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet (Post 1101479)
the only thing thats going to come out of china motors wise is going to be some hunk of crap that is made out of depleted uranium and painted with lead based paints.

Nope, actually the have made a decent step forward over their first car. I can't remember the name of these things, but the first they cranked out was a total disaster while the second was already at the level of European and Japanese cars of the mid 90ies (it is using an older Mitsubishi engine btw, so so much for not being reliable). Give them five more years and their cars will be nearly as good as ours, just a lot cheaper (yes, with lots of stolen technology).
Why do you think everyone is making such a fuss about how bad those cars are? Because they all terribly fear the day when they finally produce good cars with cheaper prices. That's why they try to destroy their reputation from the very beginning.

Quote:

the only way to reverse the problems in this nation - including the auto industry - is for Americans to wake up and realize that their once great nation has been for sale - one piece at a time - for decades. :stare:
I think this is called capitalism.;)

AVGWarhawk 05-15-09 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 1101482)
You might have given up on them a bit early. I had a '91 Buick Century that went 360,000 miles before I sold it. Not once did it ever fail to get me home.

We had nothing but GM from the 50's up to about the mid 80's. We dumped them for poor quality. My last best GM product was a 78 Buick Regal. The 88 Monte Carlo was a pile of warn parts. Straight off the lot it was in the dealers shop the next day. For a new pinion gear. It has less than 50 miles on it. I worked as a mechanic for Goodyear. In my 8 years I would venture to guess 7 out of 10 vehicles I worked on were GM products. Chrysler came in after that followed by Ford. The remaining were Japanese. In the 80's the brain child emission controls engineers were not so good. The computer control devices ran by an onboard ROM computer were awful. Computer control carbs stank the high Heavens. A/C Delco products stink IMO. Only Ford with Motorcraft had some sort of clue on emissions control but even then getting a breakout box and connecting to the ALDL to retrieve trouble codes was difficult. The Japanese idea of computer controls worked much better although when a piece would burn up the cost was much larger than the American made product. After my 88 GM which I dumped back at the dealer with 48000 miles because it was a hunk of crap I purchased a GEO Storm. Took me right up to 100000 miles without a hick-up. I gave this car to my sister-in-law. From then on I have been driving either a Chrysler or Ford product. Both have been excellent vehicles. I will continue to purchase Ford products. My two current have been nothing short of excellent.

August 05-15-09 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 1101674)
We had nothing but GM from the 50's up to about the mid 80's.

The Century was actually my third Buick. My first, an '81 LeSabre was my favorite of the three. The one I liked the least was my '82 Electra but that was because it was underpowered with only a 6 cylinder engine in it.

AVGWarhawk 05-15-09 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 1101750)
The Century was actually my third Buick. My first, an '81 LeSabre was my favorite of the three. The one I liked the least was my '82 Electra but that was because it was underpowered with only a 6 cylinder engine in it.

That Electra was part of the downfall, way underpowered V6. The 3.8 Litre were not bad in the mid-sized but the tanks like the Electra forget it. Throw in the emission controls and smother it with a converter. Such a shame too because GM pre 1975 would shoe horn in the biggest blocks they could find. 454,455 right up the 500 cubic inch Caddy motor. Funny though because some of todays V8's get better gas mileage that the Chevy Chevette 4 cylinders of that era.

August 05-15-09 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 1101763)
That Electra was part of the downfall, way underpowered V6. The 3.8 Litre were not bad in the mid-sized but the tanks like the Electra forget it. Throw in the emission controls and smother it with a converter. Such a shame too because GM pre 1975 would shoe horn in the biggest blocks they could find. 454,455 right up the 500 cubic inch Caddy motor. Funny though because some of todays V8's get better gas mileage that the Chevy Chevette 4 cylinders of that era.


Yeah it felt like the car was always starving for power. I'd have to floor it all the time just to get it up to speed on the highway. I eventually ended up giving the PoS away. A victim of Washingtons ham fisted regulations and Detroits lack of a clue what to do about it.

AVGWarhawk 05-15-09 11:19 AM

Quote:

A victim of Washingtons ham fisted regulations and Detroits lack of a clue what to do about it.
In a nutshell, yeppers. The Japanese were on top of the 4 cylinders and working with dual overhead cams and multi-valve heads. They fiddled with turbos. All good motors that lasted. However, American was not totally in the dark. The AMC General 4.0 inline six is just about bullet proof. GM had a long way to go on the 4 cylinders. The Chevy Chevette set up was trash. Just to change the distributor cap required removing the A/C unit. Fantastic engineering! Just a tired motor straight from the factory. Chrysler had a 2.2 which was a great motor and had some power if it was tuned correctly but Chrylser in their infinite wisdom used Carter carb on it and this sucked. And again, the computer controls just sucked. I spent most of my days with a digital Ohm meter trouble shooting these turds. It took some time to catch up to the Japanese quality but in the mean time GM lost a lot of customers.

GoldenRivet 05-15-09 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder (Post 1101633)

I think this is called capitalism.;)

Capitalism is one thing... a major breach in national security is another.

Tchocky 05-15-09 11:56 AM

Yup, national security is at stake.

Platapus 05-15-09 01:44 PM

How is national security at stake in this issue?

GoldenRivet 05-15-09 01:48 PM

look at it this way.

GM imports Chinese vehicles.

and shutters a majority of it's plants here in the United States.

hundreds of thousands of jobs lost.

We get into a shooting war with someone, or into a diplomatic squabble with someone and China doesnt like it?

what do they do?

Embargo auto parts, close US plants which are producing the Chinese vehicles etc.

same reason that foreign nations should not be building our military hardware.

enough of the United States Industry has been whored out to other nations... its ridiculous.

Schroeder 05-16-09 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet (Post 1101856)
GM imports Chinese vehicles.

and shutters a majority of it's plants here in the United States.

hundreds of thousands of jobs lost.

Again, this is capitalism.

Quote:

We get into a shooting war with someone, or into a diplomatic squabble with someone and China doesnt like it?

what do they do?

Embargo auto parts, close US plants which are producing the Chinese vehicles etc.
Make sure your offer is better and let the market solve the problem.;)

Quote:

same reason that foreign nations should not be building our military hardware.
Yep, point here. That is why most European countries are now building their own stuff again.

Quote:

enough of the United States Industry has been whored out to other nations... its ridiculous.
See my first comment.

SS107.9MHz 05-16-09 08:21 AM

"Hate the game, don't hate the players":D

August 05-16-09 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 1101782)
In a nutshell, yeppers. The Japanese were on top of the 4 cylinders and working with dual overhead cams and multi-valve heads. They fiddled with turbos. All good motors that lasted. However, American was not totally in the dark. The AMC General 4.0 inline six is just about bullet proof. GM had a long way to go on the 4 cylinders. The Chevy Chevette set up was trash. Just to change the distributor cap required removing the A/C unit. Fantastic engineering! Just a tired motor straight from the factory. Chrysler had a 2.2 which was a great motor and had some power if it was tuned correctly but Chrylser in their infinite wisdom used Carter carb on it and this sucked. And again, the computer controls just sucked. I spent most of my days with a digital Ohm meter trouble shooting these turds. It took some time to catch up to the Japanese quality but in the mean time GM lost a lot of customers.

There are few things in life that I hate more than wrenching. God bless you for your ability to do it.

Platapus 05-16-09 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet (Post 1101856)
Embargo auto parts, close US plants which are producing the Chinese vehicles etc..

I don't think any one is suggesting that all of the American car manufactures go away and that the only car manufacturer will be the Chinese.

CaptainHaplo 05-16-09 10:43 AM

Biggest issue here is that we just bailed out GM - or actually are paying for its bankrupt existence for now - while it takes the money and runs overseas.

In other words, the beef is we just PAID to ship jobs overseas. Thats why its a bad thing.


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