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Martes, the movie is typical German anti-war propaganda, similar, but much more poorly done than Im Westen nichts Neues. But, seeing that our other participant here is in other threads being incendiary, it's best to just
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Oh, now I understand what you meant... ok... I don't like the word propaganda anyways... makes one feel as if beeing adoctrinated in some way... And, it's not like it'd be good if it was pro-war propaganda, is it? :DL |
after all i think this was a funny but weird discussion
muchos salutos and hasta luego spaniard morph |
That's what we're all after. Fun.
In a way, I'm glad we all had fun writing these lines. :yep: |
Here is how superior U-Boats were. This is absolutely devastating and shows how pitiful the entire U-Boat gambit really was:
From Jak Mallmann Showell's U-boat Commanders and Crew 1935-1945: Quote:
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That is made even less excusable by the fact that the book the movie draws from is much better. Hey! American movie makers do even worse, ala Titanic. Das Boot has LOTS of company. |
None of this surprises me. Clair Blair states in the preface to his book, Hitler's U-Boat War that perhaps no weapon in WW2 is as mythologized as the U-Boat. Churchill inflated the U-Boat threat to help draw a neutral America's sympathy and support for the Britain The Germans exploited the threat for their own propoganda purposes.
Perhaps the greatest contribution they actually made was forcing the Allies to convoy, thereby slowing the movement of men and material. |
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There you go making my mistake of misspelling propaganda as "propoganda." How is anybody going to believe us if we can't spell?:rotfl:And I patented that goof. You are expressly forbidden to copy it. Come up with your own misspelling!:har: |
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Hold it! That's German source material, written by a German who couldn't give a rat's patootie about fleet boats. Personally I like U-Boats a lot and play the German side of SH4 about as much as the American side. I went four months after the release of UBM without touching my fleet boat. One of the tutorials in the Sub Skippers' Bag of Tricks, the Fast-90 Technique, is applicable ONLY to U-Boats. How's that for fleet boat bias? Any U-Boat fans around here writing targeting tutorials for fleet boats? I thought not.
Have I not said that the Germans would have obtained the same results with a fleet of American boats? Or a fleet of Type XXI's also? Have I not been the only one to object when a fleet boat fanboy said that the fleet boats were several times better than the U-Boats? I think you need to re-read the things I've written. My contention is that the American fleet boats were a little better in most respects than U-Boats, although there were aspects of U-Boats that were better than fleet boats. I have said that the Americans could have won the Pacific with a fleet of Type IXs. I've said the Germans could have lost the Atlantic with a fleet of fleet boats, even though they were demonstrably incrementally better boats. The Battle of the Atlantic was not winnable with submarines. They were not an appropriate tool to use for the job of winning World War II for the Germans. A great crescent wrench (adjustable spanner for those across the pond) will not help me work on my computer. It doesn't matter if it is made of titanium, is computer controlled and costs a million dollars, a crescent wrench of any quality is useless for the job. Saying that is not the same as attacking crescent wrenches. It doesn't make me biased in favor of screw drivers either. I own and enjoy both crescent wrenches and screwdrivers and use them when they are appropriate. |
I can't really understand why you keep saying that the fleet boats were so much better than the german boats. You're wrong. Perhaps the radar is something the germans would have liked though.
Then why did both the americans and the russians copy german technollogy in every way after the war? Here, let me show you something: http://www.richard-seaman.com/Wallpa...egreesLeft.jpg http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia...9-farmr_p4.jpg These pictures show the russian MIG and the american Sabre Jet which were used in the korean war. Do you think they look similar to each other? They were copies of german technollogy. Without german rocket technollogy, the americans wouldn't have been able to reach the moon in 1969! The type XXI submarine was copied by the americans and russians after the war. The allies were stunned by the german superior technollogy. When the americans captured U-505, they knew they were far behind. You know I'm right! But the germans had never heard the word "mass produce" before. They always had to come up with something new. :) |
I don't think anyone is implying that fleet boats would have done any better than U-Boats in the Battle of the Atlantic. However, as Rockin Robbins has stated the battle was probably not winnable with submarines...certainly not with conventional submarines. Even if the vaunted Type XXI had it become operational sooner it would have found itself hounded by Allied weapons in the development pipeline like MAD (magnetic anomaly detection gear) sonabouys, dipping sonar from helicopters, better homing torpedoes, etc.
I concede the Germans were ahead in rockets, missiles and jets. However, had they somehow by some miracle won the war they doubtless would have raided and copied Allied technology in areas like ASW, electronic warfare, amphibious techniques, strategic bombers, aircraft carrier technology and the atomic program where the western allies were miles ahead of them. To the victor go the spoils. Quote:
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What German plane did the Sabre and MIG 15 copy? You show a Russian and American plane, but no German plane. The Russian could have copied tha American or the American could have copied the Russian, but you have not established that either was a copy of a German design. I'm not saying that ideas weren't derived from German swept wing experimental planes, but jet engines were more advanced in Britain and the US than in Germany. When the Americans captured U-505 they knew that the Germans were no supermen and our subs were better. I'm sure they studied the optics in the periscope and the German sonar to see if they could pick up any pointers, and they were interested in German homing torpedo designs, but the German homing torpedoes were much less effective than the American cutie. The German design looked good on paper but never sank a target in real life. By the way, there were no similarities in design, fuel, controls, construction techniques or anything other than the fact that it was a rocket between the V2 and Saturn V rockets. It isn't like they strapped two dozen V2s together and went to the moon. Also, the rocket was only one element of thousands of individual elements that had to work together to get to the moon (the lunar excursion module, for instance had nothing to do with German technology), computers, space suits, fuel, navigational systems, communications, food, water, life support, all the things the Germans never even dreamed of in their rocket program. Von Braun's contribution was a tiny part of the whole. And he had competition with equally good ideas that were not adopted. They will be used next. Kapitan, aside from taunting, you don't have any ammunition in your popgun. Time to fold the tent and look for a discussion in which you can be an actual participant. If photos of a couple of planes, where you can't even compare the planes meaningfully by the too dissimilar angles, and without establishing that they copied a German design, is the best you got, you're way over your head here. |
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Sorry, just had to say it. The Soviets captured the wind tunnel prototypes and schematics for it, progressed up to the MiG15, then the Americans copied that for the Sabre. |
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