Lets see.

Either make a high thrust high ISP engine that is not dependant on outside air pressure or its oxygen.

OR

Lose rights more and more until finally the .gov has amassed enough power to silence any "Bad news" when they remove the incentives for having lots of children.

I pick letting the damn scientists continue as they are. A small team of scientists made VASIMR. I am sure in a decade someone will create the right engine for the jobs.

And robots are taking over the service jobs by then anyway. So they will be able to be mass produced.

Again with this cost thing. I mentioned the solution earlier. Mineral rights on asteroids. Even one good asteroid is enough as it can be mined for years. And with such high ISP and thrust you can get to the belt in a few months. (VASIMR can get to mars in 1 month now) So transport it not an issue.

Here is how it will happen in my view. A treaty will put forward a trillion or two to fully develop and manufacture the craft and the mobile factories to use martian materials. In return. Private industry must develop the plans and services and parts. And must fly the "List" of people who want to go for zero cost. (Obviously the first gen colonists will be a mix of specialists and people from 3rd world nations that accept the challenge of living on another planet to get away from their situation) the plans developed mean they can make what they need to harvest one asteroid for every few million or so they transport.

It wont exactly reduce the population but it will stabilize it and give companies one hell of an incentive to participate to the fullest.

BTW before someone mentions reentry. That issue has been solved.

The shuttle tiles are brittle because they are an OLD design. Modern reentry protection is MUCH better and not easily damaged.

Also with a large craft you get a MUCH larger force keeping you afloat. Do it right and the entry will take over an orbit to complete with MUCH less stress and heat the shuttle experiences. Not to mention you dont have to actually rely on drag to slow you down as such an high ISP engine can be reversed meaning you can basically "drop" into the atmosphere after you are low enough. Very safe and very economical.

It's not just an engine Zachstar, it's a whole transportation system, habitation, food and water production as well as a million other new and improved technologies that would all have to be developed, and built, in space or millions of miles away on a planet we know very little about, all on an enormous scale, and all within the next few decades. The degree of human commitment and regimentation necessary to achieve even half of it would make regulating pregnancies a trivial matter by comparison.

Besides, what about the 3rd worlder who doesn't want to be sent to the asteroid belts? What about your freedom concerns then?

You don't send the entire 3rd world. That is not possible by any stretch. (Takes each transport a day or two per mission)

As for the side systems. Why the heck do you think I say a trillion dollars? To get alot of Xboxes?

The engine tho is the key to EVERYTHING. Nobody is going to give the trillions if there is no way to even propel it there economically.

As for the next few decades. Everything will be different.

As for human commitment? What? Again this is robotic territory not big bulky dude lifting a engine to be fitted. Yes we will need more people to design these things but they will be HIGHLY assisted by even today's systems which can tell you a great deal about an idea before you even start to bend metal. And I am quite sure other nations will be eager to be involved to get access to resources and to not be left behind in the next great space push.

Read lots of Ebooks to prepare for a trip to mars or push a cart full of produce all day. Not exactly a need to force is there?

This is a way out for poorer nations and their people. Their Einsteins will get their chance. Saying commitment like it is something difficult to decide on it rather silly in my view. Just about everyone will be happy to work with this.

And what do you think they will be giving up? Minimum Wage jobs? A trillion or 2 dollars from AROUND the world?

BTW can you imagine the spin off tech? Space Tech pays for itself due to spin off.

That's a rather large assumption about a race of beings that can't manage to put the brakes on their libido. :D

Hey, the technical advances you're describing might happen and I hope they do, but they won't be a solution to the overpopulation problem here on earth.

In the scale necessary to rocket excess billions of people to other planets before they breed their way into a population crash will be way too expensive and intrusive to even be considered seriously.

In australia at least, the population is set to drop without any large increase in migrant intake.

Our population is getting much older at a fairly quick rate. IIRC there is going to be something along these lines: 20 years time, 60%+ of the population (around 25 million) are expected to be aged 45+, and as such they're not going to be at a (natural) child-rearing age.

60% of 25 million is about 15 million. If you have 15 million die over say 30 years, I don't see the remaining 10 million replacing that 15 million.

If those numbers are correct (and I am a bit sketchy, this is taking me back to yr 12 at school) then we could expect numbers here to stabilise again at about 15 million.

Of course, should this ever happen, I expect we'd be almost swarmed by large numbers from our north, who (no offense) will continue breeding like rabbits.

Clarke and Heinlein thought we would have them by now! :lol: Everything but the launch system/engine could be built with current technolgy. (Space Elevators probaly won't be feasable for a long time). The engine is a near future technolgy. ALl thats really needed would be money.

Escape velocity is less at higher altitude so building a Mag Catapult on mountian would be nessary.


Or a vehicle that brings a spacecraft to sufficently high altitude for it to blast in to suborbital flight then use its VASIMR or other engine to gain orbit. After all unless the ship is returning to Earth why bother with the exess wight required for an aerodynamic form.

Why not combine all three ideas a magnetic catapult launches an aerodynamic launch aircraft in to a ballistic trejectory, which then releases the spacecraft at high alitude. Infact its such a good idea that Sir Clarke though it up in 1968 when he wrote 2001.

Long term space habitation has been under development since Apollo mostly in the USSR (they were planing a Mars mission right about the time Neil took his small step). Also learning how to build a long term habitat in space is one of the major mission of the ISS. Every set back on the ISS is one less set back on a future space mission.

Don't forceably send those starving 3rd worlders to Ceres off them a well paying job there! A lot of them a risking traveling to Europe and the USA for a better life why not offer them a chance to travel to another planet for work. Once done building habitats and underground farms for a future colony they can live there in relitive safety (no rival clans running around chopping off arms). Just don't tell them that once their bodies get acclmated to the low gravity there is no return. ;)

All this high tech stuff sounds great but i see little or no progress being made toward actually turning those concepts into reality, meanwhile critical population mass approaches unabated.

I think at least we could begin talking about controlling population. Educating folks as to why not having a passel of kids they won't be able to feed is a smart move. Maybe even stop rewarding people who have kids they can't afford.

If we preached self control with half as much urgency as we preach useless carbon control schemes maybe we'd have a real effect on the true source of human caused global warming.

Little or no progress?

What do you call VASIMR?

What do you call Bussard Fusion?

There have been MASSIVE advances in just the past decade. And the idea of a high thrust engine with high ISP is not that crazy. You mostly need a hell of alot of watts of energy.

As for "self control" that is useless. The generations have watched their parents struggle to raise kids but still they don't slow down. If the idea of a life of spending most of your money to raise the kids in a crappy house with a crappy job does not stop it. Nothing will.

Woah, i'm not saying people shouldn't have children. Just not more than they and their society can support. Now if every person on earth limited themselves to just two children we'd this overpopulation caused climate change problem licked

Say if you want to provide an incentive to immigrate into space how about letting off world immigrants have as many children as they want?

It is an idea. Once we get this going we will need to spread as fast as ethically possible in order to get as many brilliant minds as possible working on future issues.


Converting even part of the raw minerals of the asteroid belts into habitats would mean many trillions of people. Without a great deal of poverty and an emphesis on education means the smart ones will not die young and such means technology and science and the arts would advance at an astounding speed.

Why would I want such? Well one day we will need to leave the solar system. And we will need some sort of FTL system to do it. So such an effort requires many many many bright minds working on extremely complicated theories and ideas.

But yes none of this will happen if we hit critical before it can begin. But when does the .govs involve proclaim a limit "If you want to go" or whatever?.. 10 Billion? 15? As late as 20?

Even I will admit I would want some serious proof that I will get a ticket in my lifetime before I would accept such. Atleast the engine and self replicating robot technology.