hey ! i guess thats where Subman should go too:rotfl:

Do yourself a favour , and grow.

The greatest arrogance there can be is to mess it up for all others - and afterwards still risking a big mouth how great and wonderful one is, and to demand those who one does damage to fall to their knees and be uncritical and eternally thankful for it. The american banking model dominated the world business routines in this field, and caused the greatest accident known since WWI. that means it is a failure of the american model. and to quote the german federal president from just two or three days ago: by damage and consequence the financial crisis is more dangeorus and threatening than international terrorism is. And you great and holy and innocent ones still want to lecture the world about that we should run things your way after you spelled desaster onto yourself, and on us as well!? You deserve getting spanked.

When it comes to talking about arrogance, you should remain tight-lipped and with a shameful red flush in your face. America damaged the world with this year's stunts and their introduction in the past years - not the world damaged America. Of all problems the world has today, America has now emerged to be the biggest, blocking improvements on several others as well.

Thank You TDK1044, finally somebody found some clear words for this ridiculous bull**** and I completly agree with your point of view!

It´s always easy to blame somebody else for their own problems. The question now is not longer what has gone wrong and who is responsible for this, the question is how we can get ourselves out of that ****. I don´t know the answer to that question, but I do know that pointing the finger on somebody to blame won´t help anybody.

Cheers,
Michael

"...and the customers whose single innocent error was to be lured by great profit rates..."

That says it all. Sounds like greed is universal. We Americans must have brought it with us from the "Old country (ies)".

Definitely agree there. We need to get to the root cause and prevent it from happening again. If we find any scapegoats, we'll send them to a country club prison for white collar crime. The real people responsible are too smart to get caught anyway.

I'm not an expert, but from my chair it looks fairly simple.
=======================================
Joe the worker buys a house for $400,000.

Bank loans Joe $400,000.

Bank now reports asset of $400,000.

Housing bubble pops.

House is now worth $200,000.

Joe the worker stops making payments.

Even after the foreclosure, bank now only has $200,000 asset to cover $400,000 loss in loan.

Multiply that by a few million times......
===================================

Of course it's more complicated than that. That $400,000 asset in a fractional reserve system created more money out of thin air. So when Joe defaulted, it wasn't only the $200,000 loss, but everything else that it created. Start factoring in credit swaps, derivatives, etc...

= chit sandwich. Of course you know in America, we had to supersize it then add bacon and cheese. Go ahead, take a bite. All of us will eventually.

I don't mind being on Skybird's chitlist. I bet at one point in time, all of us are members. Healthy debate is good, sometimes even fun. It's even more fun when you ask him a question he can't answer. :doh:

Just like a dysfunctional family where the kids blame "Ma and Pa" for their problems...:yep:

difference is though, most of the time..problems can be traced back to the parents.
America isnt to blame for everything

Besides, America is the kid and the rest of the world are the parents:rotfl:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Let me throw a wrench into Skybirds socket here and see if he can answer this one:

Using your logic, I guess the US can also be credited with Germany's economic boom too then, no?

You blame the bust on us, so the boom must also be us. Simple logic applied to the works of a simple mind of SB.

-S

You are absolutely right, work of a simple mind. :yep:

So, when a plane falls down the sky due to a malfunctioning engine, it must have taken off due to a malfuctioning engine, too - is that what you try to tell us about what your understanding of logic is? Well, logic never has been one of your strengths. We appreciate your intention to contribute something valuable to this discussion, but honestly said - i think your are somewhat handicapped.

If you please. I think we two are more than done with each other.

Since 1973 the U.S. GDP has fallen. But it is documented, the plane has been falling for the last 35 years. So not only didn't you look before stepping on the one plane with bum engines you forgot to take your parachute. Looks to me sombody made a poor choice of airlines. Thats what happens when any governement books your flight. ;)

What's so special about the year 1973? What happened then to cause the economy to slow down?

Actually, nothing. No unusual event occurred that year.

It's simply that 1973 appears to be when the weight of government finally made a significant difference on the economy. Government spending and regulation reached the point that they were causing visible problems. It's hard to realize today — when we have a $2 trillion federal budget — that in 1961 the government spent less than $100 billion. But by 1971 the budget had more than doubled. And by 1975 it had more than tripled — in just 14 years from 1961. Today the federal budget is twenty times the size it was forty years ago. And with the increased federal spending came far-reaching new regulations. Those were the years of the New Frontier, The Great Society, and The Great Society II (the Nixon years), and they gave the government enormous new powers with which to hamper private business. We saw the enactment of Medicare, Medicaid, the Civil Rights Acts, the Clean Air Act, the War on Drugs, and price controls on oil — plus the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). All these intrusions forced companies to rearrange their business methods to please politicians and bureaucrats — rather than their customers and employees. .

Anywys, despite all the legends about the Reagan boom, there really were only two good economic years in the 1980s — 1983 and 1984 — and during the eight Reagan years average growth was only 2.9% a year. And despite all the hoopla about the Clinton prosperity, the average growth in those years was only 3.7% per year — less than the average through the prosperity, inflation, and recessions of the pre-1973 years. Conservative and liberal activists crow about the "prosperous" 1980s or 1990s. But, in fact, both periods were anemic when compared with the pre-1973 years and now it's even worse. The load of government has long since become too much for the economy to carry effortlessly.

And as though the economy weren't suffering enough already, along came 9/11. Needless to say, the event didn't cause the government to reexamine its foreign policy or to slim down — to give the economy the necessary freedom to adjust to our new needs. No chance. Instead, 9/11 has provided the perfect excuse to accelerate government growth. Not one federal program has been cut to accommodate the new spending plans. Instead, we get more government heaped on top of all that's already weighing down the economy. Such things as the Patriot Act and the Homeland Security Department have to hurt the economy. Traveling businessmen lose an hour or two from their workdays because of airport security. Companies have to rearrange their affairs to comply with new reporting requirements. Sending 150,000 soldiers to Iraq has to hurt the economy. They could have been producing goods and services that would enhance our lives. These things add up. Yes, military spending helps some companies. But the rest of us who pay for that spending have to go without other things we wanted more. And the politicians have promised that this struggle will last for years and years — perhaps for the rest of our lives.

It's obvious that the politicians won't do what's required to restore the vibrant economy we once had. The tax cuts are no remedy, because the federal government spends $2 trillion every year. Where will that come from? Obviously, from me and other Americans. Any change in the tax rates changes only the method by which we pay the $2 trillion; it doesn't change the amount. So we can't expect the politicians to rescue the economy. There may be upward blips in economic statistics and the investment markets from time to time, but the long-term outlook for the economy will remain grim until there are dramatic reductions in the government's spending, controls, and intrusions. And that doesn't appear likely in the near future. At some point we may slide into an extended period of "negative growth" — a contraction of the economy — that drags on for several years, rather than just two or three calendar quarters.

What really gets my hackles up is we are now looking to borrow big cash from the Gulf States.

I think your analogy would be more accurate to say that you blame a malfunctioning engine when it causes the plane to fall from the sky, and you praise a working engine for the many, many flawless take-offs and journeys... ;)

.

that may be your view on real economy, but I was directly referring not to real world events, but Subman's absurd construction . ;)