Those in game shots and the real photo colours do not match - is your monitor calibrated (you didn't answer the previous time someone asked)? A few people who said that PE4 was purple calibrated their monitors and then the problem went away. Some others had a problem with the installation and a complete deletion of the JSGME cache resolved the issue for them.

I'm not really into the graphics mods as I never saw anything wrong with the stock sea, but a lot of people seem to enjoy PE and EE.

What I do find very interesting is that you say that using photographs of vivid blue oceans as a baseline is wrong as I don't know - the photographs can't be trusted or something. Then you go on to say that we should use the photographs that you have selected as a baseline. You don't seem to see anything strange about saying that other people using photographs to justify the look of a mod is wrong, because these other photos you chose are different and represent the truth? It's just weird that you don't recognise the irony.

I hope also that you are not aware of your own selection bias. In all the photos you have posted where the pacific looks dull, as evidence that PE4 is wrong, the photograph was taken on an overcast day. The photo you posted to show the atlantic vivid blue, was taken on a bright sunny day. I would hope you were not deliberately posting overcast photos of the pacific and atlantic shots lit with bright sunshine. To be aware of it would mean that you were deliberately trying to distort things and I hope that's not the case.

Due to the properties of light, a diffuse light sourse will result in a different colour from a translucent materials than if the material was strongly lit by a direct light source (ie the sun). The diffuse light from an overcast day is much duller than direct light and also, being diffuse, it does not penetrate as deeply into the sea. More of it is also refracted, further adding to the grey dullness. As we all know the colour of water is due to its (and any life forms in it) absoption of different frequencies of light. Red is the first to be absorbed and is completely absobed in a few metres. Green is the next to go and is absorbed in slightly more depth of water and the last to be absorbed is blue. This means that on brightly lit days, the diffuse light being reflected up from the particles in the water at depth are blue, thus giving the water a blue appearance. Any particulate matter in the water will reflect (of the remaining spectrum of course) its own colours back to the surface. So, when it is turbulent and shallow, the silt from the bottom gives the water a brown appearance, as the mud is causing a diffuse reflection of the white light. Different oceans have different organisms living in them and they all absorb light frequencies differently, causing each ocean to be a different colour. This happens because of the physics governing the frequencies of light. It has very little to do with what photograph you post.

If anyone is interested in a more in depth discussion, I suggest you get a copy of Light and Color in the Outdoors by Marcel Minnaert and L. Seymour. It is most excellent.

:hmm: So ... the test to see if PE4 accurately reflects (no pun intended) the color of the Pacific ... would be an in-game screen shot of the water on an overcast day? In which case, the water should not look blue?

Water is blue, I'd hope that any environmental mod kept that tradition alive. The contension seems to be about how vivid the blue is, i.e. the relative percentage of greens and reds to the blue water. A comparison of an overcast photo compared to an overcast screenshot would certainly be a fairer comparrison than a screenshot of a bright sunny day compared to a photograph of an overcast day - that clearly is a horrible perversion of any sense of fair play. Anyone that can't see what an unfair comparison that is should have their monitor calibrated.

How about a screenshot of PE4 compared to a photo of a bright day as well? Let's not limit ourselves. Stormy pacific ocean compared to PE4's stormy ocean.

If there was a mod out there that 100% emulated the state of the sea accurately, then using the same flawed tactics as Reno, I could demonstrate that the 100% accurate mod was wrong. All I'd have to do would be to post a screenshot of a sunny day compared to a simulated stormy sea in game. Or a lightning strike compared to a windy day - the windy day screenshot has no lightning in it, so must be wrong!

How about at night? Everyone knows the sea is black at night, yet in all these photos it's far too bright. Those photos must be wrong, as the sea is clearly black. I can post photographs if you want me to.

Actually no... Now I remember that the sea is red... I saw a photo of it once at sunset. Yes, that's right, definately red. And black. Not blue. Or Green. Red and Black.

Oh no hang on... Water is blue, there's that physics thing again... so that can't be right!

Geez, I understand the sentiment here, but it would seem simple. The modders here spend a lot of time trying do do a service for us all, and if PE isn't your cup of tea, use the original ROW mod. The choice is yours. EVERYONE has differing opinions and I'm sure no disrespect to Leo was intended.

I think Reno would be perfect to start a new environmental mod. He's got the passion, so all he needs is a copy of the excellent S3D and he can start modding. The one thing a mod needs is support from a dedicated individual. Reno, you should grab a copy of S3D - it's never been easier to mod the game. You can be in complete control, assuming you get permission to include the work of others into your own mod that is.

Even that shouldn't stop you. If you have a vision, you should go for it, start from scratch if necessary. Watercolour is a very easily moddable value. Unless you take into account its interaction with the weather and the time of day and the lattitude and logitude of your position of course and the position of the sun and the strength of the wind and oh yes, not forgetting the number you first thought of (it's a game engine requirement - I don't make these things up you know!). But those things are nought to a man who has PHOTOS.

Just keep in mind that the game doesn't have enough variability to accurately render what you want. You'll find that sometimes unrealistic inputs will be necessary to produce realistic outputs. And you'll find that your realistic outputs will suddenly be unrealistic in other conditions. Then you end up compromising and dithering.

Next thing you're having an argument with somebody about why your mod is wrong most of the time, but it's less wrong than their's is.......sometimes. Sometimes not. It's a surreal experience. Modders drink a lot you know.:()1:

Robbins, if you consider this a catfight then you must lead a pretty sheltered life. But it is interesting just the same. First, I'm told to shut up by a pretty stressed out gamer who seems to think that being a Gulf War vet gives him some extra credibility. Just for the record princess, and I'm just talking to gAiNiAc here, I spent 12 years in the Corps, one combat tour in Nam, one year on Okinawa, and a lot of deployments, mostly to Korea. I'm no stranger to the Pacific Ocean. In civilian life I was a homicide cop. But you know what? All that and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee out of the machine. So get over it.

Nisgeis, my monitor is calibrated (Spyder). Just to be sure I checked out the screenshots on my monitor at the office. Both had the same purple on Kriller's screenshots and the same vivid blue on my screenshot using PE. I still hold that using that blue as a baseline is wrong. The photos I posted were not politicing for any particular color to use. I was trying to show that the area of the Pacific modelled in the game has a variety of colors not just vivid blue. Of course SH can't possibly render them all but at least ROW gave you several different looks that to me seemed closer to reality. I remember reading Kriller's post when he showed everyone two photos of warships on a very blue ocean. He announced that those were the photos he was going to use for the ocean color. I'm not even sure that was the Pacific.

Nisgeis you see my presentation of actual photos of the areas in question as a flawed tactic. But don't you see that is exactly what you are doing? You and Kriller have used photos that you cherry picked to justify what the ocean looks like in your minds. So please, don't preach to me. And spare me the lecture on the properties of light. I can google too. And Nisgeis it's not me with the passion, it was Dave. All I'm seeing here is a bunch of primadonnas who try to shout down anyone else with an opposing opinion.

But hey, I'm not caring anymore.

You need to get over yourself. You come on this board with a holier than thou attitude, like your the executor of the man's will, you then surreptitiously trash many hundreds of hours of voluntary effort by a bunch of friendly extraordinarily generous folks......

Who the hell do you think you are? What gives you the right?

You come across as an ass. A hell of a way to get people to listen to your vaunted "opinion". Trash their hard work and effort. Nice guy.

Nice straw-man by the way regarding being a vet and "credibility". Your the one that brought it up. You being a cop makes sense considering your attitude problem. I've got a few of those in my family as well, I guess that gets me even more credit Prince Charming!

Go hand out a parking ticket.

I just told you who I was...were you not paying attention. I think you need a girlfriend...or is it ****edit*****?

Thus ends another thread into the abyss. I wonder what color it is? :hmm: All, go play the mod you want.