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-   -   Spaceship Could Fly Faster Than Light (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=141109)

SUBMAN1 08-24-08 12:14 PM

You are part way there. A micro singularity could be magnetically suspended and not affect anything except what you want to.

We are also not talking about pulling these galaxies towards you, but instead warping space/time to bring them towards you without you having to physically travel to it - kind of like folding up the carpet in ripples, and then laying it out again after you step to the other side of it.

Getting the picture now? With gravity, you can do this.

-S

Platapus 08-24-08 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl
Anti-gravity has supposedly been proven to exist by NASA, to a very small degree.

As an academic and a professional researcher, I always stub my eye on the word "Proven".

I am not aware of any proof of anti-gravity. That does not mean that the proof is not out there though. Anyone got a citation of this proof?
I would be most interested in reading it.

UnderseaLcpl 08-24-08 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
You are part way there. A micro singularity could be magnetically suspended and not affect anything except what you want to.

We are also not talking about pulling these galaxies towards you, but instead warping space/time to bring them towards you without you having to physically travel to it - kind of like folding up the carpet in ripples, and then laying it out again after you step to the other side of it.

Getting the picture now? With gravity, you can do this.

-S

I call bull$hit.

How can you fold nothing?

And the carpet analogy is a poor one. If you lay the carpet out, you are still moving yourself to stay at the end of it while you straghten it again.
Space-time is not a carpet that can be distorted at will.
Please tell me that I do not have to explain the special theory of relativity using the "beam of light orbiting the earth and reflecting bewixt two mirrors" example.

My argument is that gravity may be faster than light. After all, how long does it take the Moon's orbit to affect Earth's tides? None at all. Instant transmission of gravitic effect.

Naturally, we do not understand the reasons for such an instantaneous effect. Prhaps it is beyond our reach, or perhaps not.

Still, I would bet that we can harness gravity before we ever master the ability to bend "nothing"

At the last, I posit this; Lex Parsimoniae.

SUBMAN1 08-24-08 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus
Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl
Anti-gravity has supposedly been proven to exist by NASA, to a very small degree.

As an academic and a professional researcher, I always stub my eye on the word "Proven".

I am not aware of any proof of anti-gravity. That does not mean that the proof is not out there though. Anyone got a citation of this proof?
I would be most interested in reading it.

I know there are points of gravity neutrality which are known as Lagrange Points. And in a black hole, if gravity is so massive, does it fold over on itself and become anti-gravity? Just a thought.

-S

PS. There is a Lagrange point between the Earth and the moon at some point. Around 160,000 miles if I am not mistaken.

PPS. It is at 199,703 miles. I was close.

Platapus 08-24-08 01:58 PM

I guess it depends on the definition of anti-gravity.

Do we mean free from gravity?
or do we mean an opposing force (gravity-like) in an opposing vector?

But Lagrange Points have nothing to do with anti-gravity if the meaning of anti-gravity means no gravity. Lagrange Points deal with equalizing gravity in a theoretical three-body problem space (which incidentally does not exist in nature) where two of the bodies exercise forces upon the third body to the perceived (observed) effect that the third body is not being affected (observed in a vector quantity) by any one of the two bodies.

This is not anti-gravity but gravity from opposing vectors with the congruent resultant of no relative observed movement on the vector as defined by the two foci.

For there to be anti-gravity, we would be restricted to a two body problem space (which also does not exist in nature) where one body is, at the same time, attracting the second body (gravity) and repelling the second body (anti-gravity) with the observed result of the second body having no gravity effects (null gravity).

Blacklight 08-24-08 07:30 PM

Quote:

"If we have an earth-sized object in a pure vacuum, and instantly introduce another earth-size object 100,000 miles away, how long would it take for their gravitational pulls to effect each other?
Gravity technicly moves at the speed of light (299,792,458 metres per second). It takes light about 9 minutes to reach us from the sun so if the sun suddenly dissapeared, the Earth wouldn't go flying away till about 9 minutes later.

Another fun fact about the speed of light (In extreme conditions): Black holes shoot out particles in jets at their poles due to their massive magnetic fields. Some of these particles are ejected faster than the speed of light and even travel backward in time as they go.

UnderseaLcpl 08-24-08 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight

Gravity technicly moves at the speed of light (299,792,458 metres per second). It takes light about 9 minutes to reach us from the sun so if the sun suddenly dissapeared, the Earth wouldn't go flying away till about 9 minutes later.

Another fun fact about the speed of light (In extreme conditions): Black holes shoot out particles in jets at their poles due to their massive magnetic fields. Some of these particles are ejected faster than the speed of light and even travel backward in time as they go.


Give me links to sources that support these ideas and I will add you to the list of "smartest people I have ever not met".
Seriously.

It would resolve some questions that have been bugging me for a decade if the source is credible.

Please, plz plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz post links. With a cherry on top.

Blacklight 08-24-08 08:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklight

Gravity technicly moves at the speed of light (299,792,458 metres per second). It takes light about 9 minutes to reach us from the sun so if the sun suddenly dissapeared, the Earth wouldn't go flying away till about 9 minutes later.

Another fun fact about the speed of light (In extreme conditions): Black holes shoot out particles in jets at their poles due to their massive magnetic fields. Some of these particles are ejected faster than the speed of light and even travel backward in time as they go.



Give me links to sources that support these ideas and I will add you to the list of "smartest people I have ever not met".
Seriously.

It would resolve some questions that have been bugging me for a decade if the source is credible.

Please, plz plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz post links. With a cherry on top.
Okay... Here is a well done video that illustrates how it works really well. Go to the video called "A New Picture of Gravity" and watch it for the first several minutes. It illustrates what gravity is and how it works as well as the fact that the effects of gravity travels at the speed of light. Nice animations are done to show how everything works.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

This whole program is up on this page and is very interesting if you're interested in string theory. It's about three hours and well worth watching. I'm not an advocate of string theory, but it does include some interesting ideas.

As for the particles flying out of the black holes traveling faster than the speed of light and backwards in time, that may take some more work as I read that in various books (Possibly Stephen Hawking's books and several others). I'll try to find a link describing it.

UnderseaLcpl 08-24-08 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight

Okay... Here is a well done video that illustrates how it works really well. Go to the video called "A New Picture of Gravity" and watch it for the first several minutes. It illustrates what gravity is and how it works as well as the fact that the effects of gravity travels at the speed of light. Nice animations are done to show how everything works.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

This whole program is up on this page and is very interesting if you're interested in string theory. It's about three hours and well worth watching. I'm not an advocate of string theory, but it does include some interesting ideas.

As for the particles flying out of the black holes traveling faster than the speed of light and backwards in time, that may take some more work as I read that in various books (Possibly Stephen Hawking's books and several others). I'll try to find a link describing it.


THANK YOU!

I'm setting tommorrow aside solely for watching this stuff. Unfortunately, I have to go to work soon, so I'll get back to you later via PM if that's ok.
Thanks again!:up:

Blacklight 08-24-08 09:20 PM

Quote:

As for the particles flying out of the black holes traveling faster than the speed of light and backwards in time, that may take some more work as I read that in various books (Possibly Stephen Hawking's books and several others). I'll try to find a link describing it.

THANK YOU!

I'm setting tommorrow aside solely for watching this stuff. Unfortunately, I have to go to work soon, so I'll get back to you later via PM if that's ok.
Thanks again!:up:
That's okay. I read a LOT of books on this stuff.
If you want to research the particle/black hole thing, it deals with the theory of Hawking Radiation (Which we don't have the technology to actually detect yet). It involves the part of the theory where particle pairs are created near the event horizon. One regular particle and one anti-particle. One of them falls into the black hole and the other flies out. I've found a lot of articles about Hawking Radiation online, but none of them have gone into detail about the particles traveleing backward through time. I know I've read it in several of my books, but the maker knows which ones and I have a LOT. :doh:

baggygreen 08-24-08 10:39 PM

This stuff about being able to travel faster than light and warping and twisting time, it fascinates me no end but by god it does my head in!:doh:

Blacklight 08-24-08 11:52 PM

Quote:

This stuff about being able to travel faster than light and warping and twisting time, it fascinates me no end but by god it does my head in!:doh:
There's a college professor, Ronald Mallett in my state who believes that he has a formula for a working time machine that would actually be buildable and testable involving rotating beams of light in a ring lazer. Right now, the only thing that could be sent back in time this way would be a single particle and nothing can travel back to before the machine is turned on. He's aquireing funding to build the machine in order to test it.
He's written a really good book (kind of his autobiography combined with how he ultimately got the idea for the equasions for this method of time travel). Spike Lee aparently read the book and is now going to make a movie from it.

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWnoMaSgYPY

This is a link to Ronald Malletts' website:
http://www.physics.uconn.edu/~mallett/main/main.htm

This is an article that was written several years ago about Malletts' theory:
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/timetravel-01a.html

And for those who understand theoretical physics equasions, this is the actual paper Mallett published about his theory:
http://www.physics.uconn.edu/~mallett/Mallett2003.pdf

Yeah... I read as much of this stuff as I can. It fascinates me... and yes.. it makes my head spin. :D

SUBMAN1 08-25-08 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl
I call bull$hit.

How can you fold nothing?

I'm not full of BS! But I will not argue since you are wrong.

Research the project Ligo for the warp in space time caused by gravity. If it were BS, gravity waves from a Super Nova would hit the Earth at the same time precisely. Problem is, and Einstein theorized this, they don't. Ligo has now proved it.

So go fathom my carpet idea. It is real. :D Might make your head hurt though! :p Poke poke!

-S

PS. Let me help you on your journey! http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/

PPS. If your head doesn't explode, we can then move on to String Theory. Then it will. Be sure to keep a cam on it. I want to see the after effects!! :p :D:D:D

PPPS. I will even post some relevant information for you:

Quote:

GRAVITATIONAL WAVES:
RIPPLES IN THE FABRIC OF SPACE-TIME


Albert Einstein predicted the existence of gravitational waves in 1916 as part of the theory of general relativity. He described space and time as different aspects of reality in which matter and energy are ultimately the same. Space-time can be thought of as a "fabric" defined by the measuring of distances by rulers and the measuring of time by clocks. The presence of large amounts of mass or energy distorts space-time -- in essence causing the fabric to "warp" -- and we observe this as gravity. Freely falling objects -- whether a soccer ball, a satellite, or a beam of starlight -- simply follow the most direct path in this curved space-time.

When large masses move suddenly, some of this space-time curvature ripples outward, spreading in much the way ripples do the surface of an agitated pond. Imagine two neutron stars orbiting each other. A neutron star is the burned-out core often left behind after a star explodes. It is an incredibly dense object that can carry as much mass as a star like our sun, in a sphere only a few miles wide. When two such dense objects orbit each other, space-time is stirred by their motion, and gravitational energy ripples throughout the universe.


In 1974 Joseph Taylor and Russell Hulse found such a pair of neutron stars in our own galaxy. One of the stars is a pulsar, meaning it beams regular pulses of radio waves toward Earth. Taylor and his colleagues were able to use these radio pulses, like the ticks of a very precise clock, to study the orbiting of neutron stars. Over two decades, these scientists watched for and found the tell-tale shift in timing of these pulses, which indicated a loss of energy from the orbiting stars -- energy that had been carried away as gravitational waves. The result was just as Einstein's theory predicted.


UnderseaLcpl 08-25-08 02:40 AM

Damn. Doublepost.

UnderseaLcpl 08-25-08 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
Research the project Ligo for the warp in space time caused by gravity. If it were BS, gravity waves from a Super Nova would hit the Earth at the same time precisely. Problem is, and Einstein theorized this, they don't. Ligo has now proved it.

Quote:

After thorough peer review, Advanced LIGO proposal was approved by the National Science Board in October, 2004, and appears in the President's budget for a recommended start of funding in 2008. We plan to start observations in 2013. The science that follows may well revolutionize our view of the Universe.
According to their site and related articles, Advanced LIGO isn't even operational yet, and initial LIGO has yet to detect a gravity wave. Neither they nor any other installation have detected one yet. I don't know enough to really disagree with you, but LIGO certainly doesn't prove or disprove anything at this point.

Quote:

So go fathom my carpet idea. It is real. :D Might make your head hurt though! :p Poke poke!
I'm trying to. I'll have to get through the links Blacklight gave me and get back to you. Head is hurting already:damn:



Quote:

PPS. If your head doesn't explode, we can then move on to String Theory. Then it will. Be sure to keep a cam on it. I want to see the after effects!! :p :D:D:D
We'll see;)


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