SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - What do you do if you see enemy aircraft?

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- - What do you do if you see enemy aircraft? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=140972)

nirwana

08-19-08 10:37 PM

Well during daylight i run half surfaced at 7.5m depth which makes it possible to dive normally in time to avoid the negativ sideeffects of crash diving. Everything works the same way then std surfaced except it slows me down about 20% and possibly my accustic signature is higher. If im lucky and the planes are not fast fighters im submerged before being spotted. I engage planes only if my position is too far away from any base for fighters to engage me. Those are the only ones i dont dare to fight.

btw. If i need to stay to make sure my victim(s) are really sinking i do this at periscope depth cause the captain of the ship will call for assistance by radio. If he is in range of an airbase 15-20 min later planes are showing up and looking for me if its during daylight and the wheather permits it.

Kpt. Lehmann

08-20-08 12:06 AM

Well, the first thing that I do when I see an enemy aircraft... is to scream curses at it! :lol:

nikbear

08-20-08 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

Well something like 45-50% of all u-boat losses in WWII were due to aircraft or aircraft operating in conjunction with ships (this includes losses due to air attacks on harbours).

Aircraft were regarded as the single greatest threat to u-boats due to their speed, ability to surprise (related to speed and difficulty in detecting them) and weapons/sensors.

The fact is you should avoid aircraft like the plague. UNLESS you have NO CHOICE (due to prior damage or detecting the aircraft too late, by which I mean closer than about 4-6km) you should immediately dive.

Incidentally, you can edit the 'crash dive' depth so you can use it more regularly. I set mine for 50m.

Another thing: my view is that 'shallow water' means you change your tactics to avoid needing to dive, NOT that you fight on the surface because you can't dive quickly/deeply. Staying on the surface is usually a losing proposition - even early in the war, if you 'defeat' the aircraft you may well suffer significant casualties/damage, so you've still 'lost'.

Your job is to sink ships using your advantage of surprise/stealth. Doing anything else is contrary to that. If I were BdU I'd be asking what you were doing such that you were cornered on the surface by aircraft and you'd better have a good answer...."watching a ship sink" doesn't qualify as a good answer!!!

It was a failure of stock SH3 that people were so blase about aircraft (witness the post where the person shot down 52 in one patrol!!). They were killers, and u-boats rightly feared them (thank goodness the air-dropped homing torpedo isn't included!!). GWX/NYGM correctly altered this so you'll pretty much die regularly if you continue to stay on the surface near aircraft - even being damaged by near misses or air depth charges is better than staying on the surface to be bombed/strafed.

I belive someone is working on a mod for the 'air dropped homing torpedo'!FIDO it was called:o:huh::doh::damn::rotfl:that should spice things up a bit:up:

Steeltrap

08-20-08 01:53 AM

Ah, no - it should make things deadly.

My recollection is that FIDO was so effective (unlike the initial German version that was rushed into service due to combat pressures before its 'glitches' were ironed out) that the Germans knew nothing of it until after the war - the only boats aware of it were destroyed by it......

NOT something I'd look forward to. I imagine your only real hope would be to shut down your engines and change course/depth....at least it didn't use active sonar.

Cezbor

08-20-08 01:57 AM

Fast dive and change of course:yep: .....or ..... many stupid manuvers just to trick those @#$%&*@@### flying sons of Albion:nope:

bookworm_020

08-20-08 02:01 AM

Put my head betwwen my knees and kiss my A$$ goodbye!:dead:

Dive like there's no tomorrow, and if I'm not fast enough, there won't be!:dead:

Steeltrap

08-20-08 02:04 AM

A follow up to my previous:

"340 [Fido] torpedoes [were] dropped in 264 attacks of which 204 were against submarines. In 142 attacks US aircraft sank 31 submarines and damaged 15; in 62 attacks against submarines other Allies, mainly British, sank six and damaged three. Most of these submarine sinkings were German U-boats in the Atlantic, but five Japanese submarines were sunk by Fidos, one, I-52, in the Atlantic and four in the Pacific. OEG Study No. 289, 12 August 1946, is the main source for this conclusion."

Fido was first used successfully by a British B-24 Liberator defending Convoy HX 237 on 12 May 1943, sinking U-456. This was followed by a USN PBY-5A from VP 84 which sank U-640 on 14 May 1943.

I still think it's true the Germans were unaware of it - due to its small warhead (about 45kg torpex) they probably thought the damage was from a near bomb/depth charge.....either way, these stats make it clear it's NOT a pleasant experience for the recipient:

- 27% of attacks lead to damage or destruction of target submarine (18% destruction, 9% damage). So there's a 1/4 chance it will hit you, and a 66% chance that any hit will be fatal.

YIKES!!!!

Paul Riley

08-20-08 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat84

I recently read the memoir Iron Coffins by Werner. He says that BDU at some point broadcast all uboats not to use metox anymore cause the allies home in on it.

In the GWX manual it says this was a lie by a captured pilot, in reality the allies had new radar that used wavelengths that Metox didnt pick up.

Dont know what the game does, but I'd like to know :)

I have had Iron Coffins for a couple of years,a really good book,and it CAN in fact help you with this game.
Regarding Metox,i'm not sure,but were'nt the emissions really miniscule,and hard for RAF bomber command/planes/ships to detect?.I havent had this device yet,but know a little about it,as it gave the uboat a few vital seconds to prepare for an incoming aerial attack! :o , and also notified the crew that they were being tracked by radar.
It sounds like a very vital piece of equipment to me,better than having nothing!.

Murr44

08-20-08 05:39 AM

If you're using an early radar system turn it on for very short periods of time & don't forget to turn it off. Leaving it active is a sure fire way to draw some unwanted attention to yourself. One time I was found by a Catalina in the middle of a pitch black night, 100's of miles from the nearest land. I'd forgotten to shut the :damn: radar off! :oops: I escaped but it was a pretty friggin' close one.

Chisum

08-20-08 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Well, the first thing that I do when I see an enemy aircraft... is to scream curses at it! :lol:

Are you afraid to get a ticket for excessive speed ??

:p

SpeedyPC

08-20-08 08:34 AM

Question:- What do you do if you see enemy aircraft?

Answer:- Easy flush the toilet :yep: (crash dive), hated to get myself stuck in the mud in shallow water :nope: when my conn tower was rip in half :damn:

Anybody got any spare toilet paper :shifty: :doh: to remove the dirty mud when stuck in shallow water.

Edit:- Bernard :nope: order a crash dive too soon in shallow water while the captain (me) is sitting on the loo :damn:, I wish I could shoot him :damn: why? he's my brother :nope: :nope: :damn: :damn: I blame my mother cause I have to look after him.......God Crikey mum I want my gun back.

Kielhauler1961

08-20-08 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Riley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat84

Regarding Metox,i'm not sure,but were'nt the emissions really miniscule,and hard for RAF bomber command/planes/ships to detect?.I havent had this device yet,but know a little about it,as it gave the uboat a few vital seconds to prepare for an incoming aerial attack! :o , and also notified the crew that they were being tracked by radar.
It sounds like a very vital piece of equipment to me,better than having nothing!.

Herbert Werner, like the rest of the U-Bootwaffe, were "suckered" into believing this one. Metox was a 'passive' system for listening-out for signals only. It did not transmit so, therefore, could not be detected. It's like believing your hydrophones are giving your presence away to enemy ASDIC. British propaganda at its best - wonder how many boats were lost because they believed the story and turned the equipment off? The Germans became suspicious of Metox in the summer of 1943 because it suddenly seemed to have stopped working. Boats were being surprised by aircraft in the Bay of Biscay without a "peep" out of the RWR. This was because the Allies had moved to centimetric radar, something the Germans didn't think was possible to make small enough to fit in an aircraft. They were already suspicious of their own equipment and it only needed a little 'nudge' to tip them over the edge.

The main problem the U-Boats had was that they were too 'talkative.' Old technology brought up to date: High-Frequency Direction Finding (Huff-Duff) caught their radio transmissions 90% of the time from mid-43 onwards. That's why I keep 'schtumm' after leaving port.

Sailor Steve

08-20-08 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Riley

Mexox's emmissions were indeed very weak, and pretty much undetectable, but due to quick thinking on the part of a captured Brit the Germans came to think otherwise, and stopped using it.
http://www.uboat.net/technical/detectors.htm

Puster Bill

08-20-08 10:18 AM

Everytime I see an enemy aircraft, I submerge. Usually it's voluntary, but sometimes it has not been :dead:

meduza

08-20-08 11:04 AM

I wonder, if you replace your Metox with modern system (like Naxos), will it be able to detect an older type of radar emission?

For example, the Naxos is a S-band detector, but what if the airplane still has a older VHF band radar? Wil you be able to detect it with Naxos?

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