Look at some motives behind the actions tho.

Putin is old-school, soviet-trained KGB. He remembers a time when the west trembled at night for fear of thousands of tanks rolling through the fulda gap, when the ground shook to the marching boots of a million combat-ready men.

FastForward to 2002ish, the west looks at russia and laughs.

Imagine how much this must dent Putins pride. The man grew up in a nation which was feared throughout the world, if they said jump the response was how high. They had in the space of 10 years from powerful to laughable. Of course he'd want to turn it around. A growth in the abilities and equipment of Russias armed forces was always inevitable. I dont think its something to be concerned about. What Russia ultimately fears i think is China.

Which brings me along nicely. China is a nation that has not in living memory been a 'great power' like Russia, the US or even Germany or Britain. They aspire to it though, and who can blame them? The past however long they've been subjugated by foreigners, one after another. the Chinese are a proud people, and this hurts them. People recognise what russia can do, cos they've done it before. Noone knows what china can do, including themselves, and this is the real concern.

*****(simple analogy, dont take offence anyone)*****
How does a kid in the schoolyard show that they're bigger and tougher than the 2 biggest bullies? By beating them up, and proving your tougher.

Thats the real problem.

The only way that China will feel they've attained superpower status is by giving the others a bloody nose.

To do this, China needs resources by land. Hence the niceness to Iran! If they get oil overland rather than shipping it in like at present, there goes one potential weapon to use against them - blockade. next they need money. Best way to earn money is control valuable resources. Oh, look - theres trillions of dollars worth of resources just over the border in.... RUSSIA! Anyone see trouble brewing yet??

Now i said before that the Chinese are a proud people. one of their biggest sore-points is taiwan. if they have overland supplies, and control an immense amount of wealth, does anyone think they wont try taking on taiwan? Sure, the US might try intervene but if they ask their pals the iranians to help out and stir some trouble, you got 2 hotspots which the US cant ignore. overstretching them, that makes life easier on the chinese.

So anyways, conclusion: the west has nothing to fear from Russia, but both russia and the west have everything to fear from china. Russias flights, shows of power are a warning to china, a deterrent, saying we still have the means to hurt you. I think its in the wests interests to try work much more closely with russia, i really think thats going to be the key to avoiding all sorts of nasty problems in the next 20 or 30 years.

First off, I question the validity of this report. Please post form a US government website. Not someone's homepage that probably modified it to their own end. This is probably an Iranian for all I know.

Second, the system is purely automated. A similar system exists in the form of a Patriot missile. It makes a mistake on occasion as evident that we shot down one of our own F-18's - accidently, and automatically without human intervention during 2003.

So, please find me another source.

Thx,

-S

Little things like this make me further discount it as credible - sounds like Iranian propoganda.

http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=...fier=ADA203577

Got the pdf from this link.

Um, no that's bits and pieces of the DoD investigation with extensive commentary by someone trying to make a point.

That one is good. It puts things into perspective.

-S

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/813/iran1pk3.gif
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7020/iran2fo2.gif

That pretty much sums it up. it was a tragedy, not a deliberate act to down an airliner.

-S

Subman. It is obvious to me that you have allowed yourself to be twisted into fear by these terrorists and their supporters. Your posts do nothing but help them. Please stop!

By posting this stuff you are allowing them to win. They want us to live in fear of them. To form conspiricy theories, point fingers, do stupid acts, panic, discriminate, lay down our freedoms for security. Abandon allies, Etc... Etc.. Our economy is heading down the crapper and you dare post this crap? Just who do you want to win the war on terrorism?

You know who people like you are really allowing to win? China! China is just loving us tearing ourselves apart economically and spritulally over dem terrorists! They have been on hot standby for years waiting for us to collapse economically. Except this time their goods are not so crap anymore. The more we allow ourselves to show our fear like this, The more china will influence us.

Whoaa! I don't fear any terrorist. I have a greater chance of getting hit by lightening. I think the odds are in my favor for winning to lottery (even though I don't play)! So what are you getting at? Are you saying some of our members are terrorists?

-S

ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

Absolutely not!

What I am saying is that THIS crap. THIS fear is the stuff that aids them in the end. THIS crap is what they want!

This whole topic did nothing but incite fear and anger. Compare that to what those evil people want. What China wants. What is killing the economy.

Not with me it didn't

:D Chock

I don't agree. I like to hear their opinions. Each and every one of them here, even though it doesn't look like it at times (including Skybird), I'd love to sit down and have a beer with them. What you are looking at is world opinions. It is educational to see how the rest of the world sees you, and to have an argument over visions. It shows a lot of how people from various countries view certain situations.

I've never been one to walk the fine line of political correctness. You never get the truth that way.

-S

You have to understand that right now. The economy is EVERYTHING! With oil prices running higher every year and the call of overseas jobs. The last thing the economy needs is talk of another cold war and conspiricy theories and other crap.

They need to feel that things are getting better, that the world is stabilizing, and that we truely have the terrorists beat. When you post such crap and it gets back to them through rumor and other means. They become frightful and that causes losses on the stock market and other aspects.

The USA will not outlast another depression. We WILL be bought out. So STOP. Have faith, be nice and support peace and unity. The alternative is more fears and more years of economic ruin.

I grew out of the phase of finger pointing and accepted that the economy as it is now (Pre-Fusion) is much more important than assuming anything.