Like it showed in SH1? :doh:

I still think that all stop is outside of the "range" of the programming quiet running. If they said that 0.01 - 2kts is quiet and anything outside of that range is noisy. I have slipped in front of destroyers @ 80 feet 90deg and not been detected as long as I was moving. Compare that to the one time I was 250ft deep completely stopped and totally bows on to the destroyer (in version 1.2, no less) and I was detected. I have yet to be detected by any destroyer (other than Bungo Pete who apparently has a crystal ball or telepathy with fish) while running 1-2kts. Especially if I'm under the thermal layer. I find them very easy to evade and I usually am able to withdraw, reload and make an end around for multiple tries at the convoy. I never take out a destroyer, unless he happens to get in my way, or he has irritated me in some fashion.

I would adhere to the tactics put forth by Ducimus. He is the resident expert on AI and sensor technology.

Chuck

Ducimus is the master of AI
 

It is possible to ignore his advice, and if you are foolish even contradict it. It is also possible to die a lot. Playing SH3 the way you wish it would work will result in a result you wish you had not experienced.

I'm playing around in the Yellow Sea right now. At no time in the past 3 hour battle have I had more than 100' of water under me. Most of the time it's been in the 80's. Wind 15 m/s, fog, rain, choppy waves make periscope work very interesting.

I ran into a convoy of 5 freighters and a DD. DD was in front. My friend the radar let me position myself ahead and 800 yards off the track, where I sat at radar depth with engines stopped, repair party disengaged, silent running. When radar showed they were 800 yards away and I couldn't see anything I went to periscope depth. Then I saw the DD. Hi there! Nothing here but a hole in the water. I heard that somewhere.

Here comes the first merchant. It goes by and I don't see it at all. No shot. (insert favorite profane comment here. Go ahead. You'll feel better.) That's Ok, there's more.

Creep up on the track to 500 yards, watching the sonar bearing. Not even a shadow! WernerSobe, you finally got your sticky, let's try out your sonar targeting again. I had the heading and speed from radar data. Did you know you don't have to know AOB if you know the heading? Takes a little trial and terror, but you can set the heading on the TDC. Werner shows you how. It's time to ping some bearings and ranges! Ping. Pong. Click Click.....Ping, Pong. Click Click. One more. Ping. Pong. Click Click. Open torpedo tubes one and two. Fire one! Set spread 1½º left. Fire two! Wait, Wait, BOOM!!!! BOOM!!! Check the map. OH, @#$@#%@$@#!!!!! What's that sonar vector? Swing the periscope around to get a nice portrait view of the biggest, fastest Jap DD I've ever seen!

Down periscope! Hard left! Ahead emergency! Mr. DD slid behind me and killed a school of fish. I left ahead emergency on for five seconds and pulled back to a setting of two knots. I know that is definitely below 100 RPM, so it's darn quiet. Stayed at periscope depth, heck, there's no water under me anyway. I guess my pinging was like a dinner bell calling in the destroyer. Up scope and look around. Because of the rain, wind and chop, the DD has no clue where I am, even though he just about scraped my paint off in his death run of the fishies. Left the scope up to watch between the wave peaks. He doesn't see the scope. I'm leaving it up for about 15 seconds at a time, so I'm not being very careful with it.

Mr. DD ran circles slowly all around me at about 300 to 400 yards (meaning a shot would have been stupid. I'd just be writing an arrow on the water pointing straight to me. Every once in awhile he makes a blind run and drops charges right in front of me as I observe the whole run through the scope! I've read about this in real life but never expected to experience it in Silent Hunter 4. (Forrest Somebodyorother in "Wake of the Wahoo" writing about Mush Morton) He has no clue, so it's time to look around.

OH (fill in the blank)!!!!! A shape charges out of the fog at AOB zero. Another destroyer! Too close to do anything! Hope he doesn't know I'm here. I lower the scope and he passes directly overhead. Up scope. Hey, that thing is too fat for a DD. It's a nice Medium European Composite. AOB 180º, speed nothing special, bearing mark. Fire three! Forgot to open the tube door but the delay doesn't matter. BOOM! I've picked the DD's nose for another victim! I cozied up to the inert stricken freighter for companionship and waited for another victim, while watching the clueless DD, who wasn't about to give up. This is no time to make a mistake. I picked up a second victim emerging from the fog, prompting some poking around my position by the DD. I was nuzzled up close to my buddy the burning freighter. DD never saw me.

Over the next two hours I finished sinking all five of the DD's little chicks, receiving credit for four of them. I must have been too far from the fifth. The sunk icon was on the map, but was gray instead of the normal color. I never went deeper than periscope depth. It wouldn't have made sense to give up the ability to see for the protection of less than 80' of water. Often I just waited until Mr DD was out of sight, surfaced and jetted to a new position to settle down and pick off my next victim. He can't find you on sonar if you're on the surface!:arrgh!: After I sank all the freighters I just left the DD and continued my orbit of the star in the Yellow Sea so I can get credit for patrolling there.

I'm using Trigger Maru 1.5 with Natural Sinking Mechanics 3.0 classic (what a mod!). I back up Ducimus 100% when he says you can learn to deal with the DD's. Pick your circumstances, use sound strategy and believe his words on how the AI works. You'll be successful.

How would you have adjusted your tactics if that DD had spotted your 'scope?

Oh, and I don't want to hear "I'm hosed" :cool:

Scopin' it out.
 

There are three positions you can be in when the DD spots your scope and all three mean something different.

First, the DD can see your scope from a parallel course, either at his bearing 90º or 270º. In this case or close to it, he can't immediately turn into you. Urgent action isn't necessary except dodging the gunfire that's surely coming your way. You need to get the scope down quick anyway. OK, so he's either passed ahead or passed behind. Now what's pointing at you? Yup, the hind end of his boat. You can't see it but you know it's there. And it means he can't ping you, he can't hear you. Hit the gas! Turn right or left trying to turn the opposite direction he does to put max distance between you. If you guess wrong you'll cramp his next maneuver, so all is not lost. So hit the gas, turn 90º right or left, keep full power on until he turns 90º behind you and go to silent running, 2 knots, repair crew manually turned off, secure from general quarters, scope down!

Second, the DD spots you when you're behind him. 2 choices here and you can choose both if you want. First, he's AOB 180, his speed cancels out, all you need is his heading, hey that's the same as yours! Fire one setting shallow, fast speed and you'll have a great chance to take him out. Second, you're looking at his finest end. Lower the scope, make the turn of your choice and do a high speed jet out of there. Remember to go to strict silent running after a short burst.

The third, and most dangerous (you just read that is what I did last!) is the one that promotes good cardiovascular health by raising your heartbeat to supersonic levels. He's straight ahead of you, coming at you, AOB zero! Prayer would be a good idea right now, but you'd best be evading during the prayer. If you have depth to work with like I didn't earlier this afternoon, immediately pull the scope down and simultaneously do a crash dive. As soon as you see six or seven knots (pretty darn quick) turn 45º left or right. You're trying to get enough depth that you can turn out from under the depth charges as they fall. It's gonna be close. But you should be OK. Soon as they start blowing up the entire universe you know that since you can hear them you survived:p. Get a little distance, look for a hidey spot (if sonar conditions are bad I love periscope depth to retain the initiative) and go to strict silent running while you change pants. Don't flush while on silent running.

That's about it. The important thing seems to be to think out what you are going to do beforehand. There is no time to consult the tea leaves in combat. Reaction must be instinctive. You're going to do a lot of stuff and not know why. Listen to your inner voice. He wants to survive real bad.

Last rule: when you make a mistake, if you survive then learn from it.

Edit: Other than that, you're hosed. :arrgh!: