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-   Silent Hunter 4: Wolves of the Pacific (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=202)
-   -   in response to alot of "used too many torps to sink a boat" threads (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117933)

nikimcbee 09-10-07 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centred75
If you watch the history channel show Dogfights and the episode about the Taffy 3 escort group that was attacked by the Japanese navy you will see how a single torpedo launched from (I forget the details) a destroyer escort broke the bow completely off a Japanese Heavy Cruiser. One torp and its done.

Thats not to say one torp can kill a ship. Its possible but it all depends on how you hit it. Sometimes a ship can absorb multiple torps because they hit and explode without doing any real serious damage (hull breaches but thats about it).

Ive saved many torps by just shooting 2 or 3 fish then wait a while to see if the deck is slowly sinking. If so itll go under eventually. I think the ship damage model is quite accurate.

Oh and on a side note, if you use the deck gun and aim for just below the base of the smoke stack you can blow the stack out and have it collapse into the ship. Very funny :) And I think it also really reduces the ships speed.

Cheers
you mean this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119981
:|\\

seafarer 09-10-07 11:32 AM
I remember a history channel show some years back about the war. While I can't remember any of the details, they mentioned an incident where a US sub put no less then 6 torpedoes into a relatively small coaster tramp steamer. She settled, on an even keel, until the decks were nearly awash. But, she did not sink. Upon seeing the crew abondon the completely disabled ship, the sub surfaced and pumped a fair number of deck gun rounds into her from (effectively) point blank range.

Turned out the ship was full of bails of raw rubber. As far as anyone knows, she never sank, and was, in fact, efffectively unsinkable - at least until her cargo could be gotten out of the way somehow. Since she was so full of water, they couldn't even get the raw latex to ignite and burn off. The sub just gave up and went back to patroling.

GerritJ9 09-10-07 03:38 PM
"Java"'s completion was significantly delayed by WW1- much material and equipment had to come from Germany and Germany gave her own needs priority. Financial restrictions didn't help either; the planned third ship of the class, "Celebes" ("Sumatra" being the second), was cancelled due to lack of money.
By the way, none of my sources lists mines as part of "Java"'s armament- and why would she be carrying mines anyway since minelaying was never intended to be one of her duties? I would be very interested in the source for that information.

razark 09-11-07 01:27 AM
No one seems to take into account the fact that for true realism, once the war ends, half of the ships and tonnage claimed during the war should be removed from your record anyway.

tater 09-11-07 09:42 AM
^^^ if instead of a handful of merchant types, we had literally hundreds of mostly 1 or 2 off merchant types, plus a few built in somewhat large (for the japanese) numbers, but slightly different from every shipyard. Then if a large % of the information in our rec manuals was flatly wrong into the bargain. We'd also need a sinking model as standard for comparison more like NSM, but with damage control for the targets, and the ability to be towed away, too. Also if we got no bogus "Ship Destroyed" message, but only got to claim it as sunk based on seeing it go down, burn, breaking up noises, etc.---then I think you would see overclaiming by SH4 players as well.

razark 09-11-07 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tater
^^^ if instead of a handful of merchant types, we had literally hundreds of mostly 1 or 2 off merchant types, plus a few built in somewhat large (for the japanese) numbers, but slightly different from every shipyard. Then if a large % of the information in our rec manuals was flatly wrong into the bargain. We'd also need a sinking model as standard for comparison more like NSM, but with damage control for the targets, and the ability to be towed away, too. Also if we got no bogus "Ship Destroyed" message, but only got to claim it as sunk based on seeing it go down, burn, breaking up noises, etc.---then I think you would see overclaiming by SH4 players as well.
Actually, I would love to see something along these lines implemented. Somehow, though, I think that this may be beyond even the greatest modders.

Maybe in Silent Hunter X.

tater 09-11-07 04:36 PM
Me too, lol. The ships are possible. The rec manual... is possible after a fashion---you could make several very similar ships, and make the rec manual pictures be wrong (just like RL). You'd then be picking almost randomly from a group opf simialr ships. I've also figured out how to prevent ships from being in the rec manual, so some not in there at all, pick whatever looks most similar, etc.

Will make shooting harder, at least.

It would be nice if the game created a "claims" file based upon the ship you THOUGHT it was, then it corrects it after the war...

A real claims system vs 100% perfect kill counts is something I've wanted for ages in flight sims as well. Like at some point you enter a log or debriefing screen, and you select the number of targets engaged, the type, hits, and damaged or sunk status.

tater

Krauter 09-11-07 06:34 PM
Just asking, but wasnt there a post somewhere in the dust files saying A/C carriers had the damadge modelling of merchants? **Might need clarifying**

With Regards,

Krauter

tater 09-11-07 07:30 PM
In the stock game, yes, they do. That's why you have to be a pretty terrible shot to take more than 1, or at most 2 fish to sink a CV in stock SH4.

tater

pythos 09-11-07 08:19 PM
What really urks me is when I blow the propeller (s) off and the ship continues steaming ahead at flank speed.

I put 10 torpedoes into an ocean liner, after blowing its propellers off. It kept up with the convoy and kept on going,

Problem with both SH3 and SH4 is that you have to keep the ship sensor range in order to get the credit for its sinking if it sinks. But in order to keep up, you make noise, or have to surface far off. This does not work all that well with the eagle eyed escorts.

Sh4 seems to suffer more from the ships that can take a lickin and keep on tickin syndrome than sh3.

If a ship is reduced to damage graphics, the damn thing should sink. IMHO.

Frederf 09-11-07 09:14 PM
Quote:
Once in 1942 a Russian tugboat took 18 direct torpedo hits and continued on her duties! High survivability of ships in SH4 is perfectly correct!
Quote:
On a summer's day in 1944 the HMS Incontravertible, a battleship of 56,000 tons displacement, was catestrophically destroyed by half of a discarded torpedo from a Finnish destroyer. All ships in SH4 should explode in 1 or 2 hits!
One-off historical annecdotes do not a convincing logical arguement make.


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