Don't forget that sometimes people just make honest mistakes. Nobody's perfect. A lot of modders are newbs too, ya know. :) I would think that usually if you can just a provide said author with a little friendly advice and helpful info, then it will go a long ways towards helping rather than hurting.

To all SubSim modders:

I hope you guys know you have our full support and thanks. I understand where you are coming from on this matter completely.

While I don't think we need to be throwing words like "theif" around lightly, I do want to know if someone here is unhappy with what has been done to their mod.
With the understanding that that's all you can do. Let people know and then that's it. Move on.

Personally I doubt I'd use a mod if it the original modder was unhappy about it. But some people will and there's nothing you can do except to stop making your mods public.

I pray that doesn't happen.

You know, anyone bringing up the issue of modding ethics is doomed to get mud on their face. So be it.

@Spytrx and other non-modders who may have just arrived here. You have no vested interest in the last two years of creation that have gone on here... apart from cherry picking whatever you like that suits your gameplay style... even if it includes gratuitous explosions or whatever. Ergo calling me a hypocrit is shooting from the hip... because you don't like what I/we have to say.

Yes, we didn't change something you didn't like and held our ground... so you now have a problem with us or me or whatever. Your posting history is easy to review by anyone here.

You haven't had to suffer individuals who have developed a parasitic relationship with your work as Carotio has done with GWX and has announced plans for concerning WAC.

The story might have had a different outcome had Carotio decided to make some sort of overlay mod package for GWX and present it independantly... but that is not what he did. He re-destributed the entirety of GW and GWX without seeking any permission.

Carotio's actions are taken and chosen with total disregard for any sort of process that goes against his wishes. We've taken a direct stance against his cavalier attitude (and others) who have total disrespect for the origination of original created material. He has made it clear that he has no intention to change how he goes about doing things regardless of the outcome... and we intend to oppose such behavior.

What Carotio is doing, is little different from what donots76 did... (former "GWX Dev" who slapped his name on some pre-release files created from thin air by Boris, and released them as his own... later playing the "poor me" note when we decided to bare our fangs and excise the cancer.)

You may view me as egotistical or the front man for the "big oppressive GWX organization." I no longer care. I view it as my duty to protect the effort that our guys make to improve the submarine simulation... and the work created by the artists who have contributed directly to it. I'm sure this feeling is mutual when you view HanSolo78's righteous anger when confronted with the same set of adverse conditions.

Carotio has had the same opportunities that the rest of the modding community has had... to build something from the ground up... Instead, he chose the easy road... and a personal mission in life to view all others as "suppressing poor old Carotio." Very well. He can also accept the natural resistance that people will give when someone takes without permission.

I'll address the "copyright infringement" issues separately in a few moments... and at some point soon I will propose some ground rules to clear the way for future modders with honorable intentions.

And in teme ethics:
That I should think when have seen it:
Add Dornier Do.24 searchplanes/bombers (thanks JScones)
Link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111353
As I remember - it's my plane, and I saw that it plane JScones!!!!!
What do I deal with it fact? It is not so simple inclusion of my unit in mod, it already its giving to itself.
May be any talk me - that I should think when have seen it?

Hi mate.

Much is lost in translation.

The Dornier Do.24 is not included in GWX to be clear.

It's read in link teme, and place or not plane in you mod - it's you deal, but giving to itself - it's other.

Hi Denis

That thread refers to a Dutch mod in SH4
I think Jaesen was just pointing out there was a DO24 aircraft around

It isnt in GWX and would have been up to the mods creators to ask for inclusion

GWX team always ask permission! Check!
GWX team gets no answer? -> use anyway with credits! Check!
That's what I read!
Well, who says that the creators of all the small mods used in GWX play the game the same way as you GWX guys?
It would be very strange, if all played this game the same way. And just because GWX is one package, it doesn't mean that all parts are accepted by everyone!
What a piece of b*llsh*t! Again Kpt Lehmann fills you all with lies! GWX-TA is not GWX in its entirety! It is "a tweak package to go on top of GWX using JGSME..." So again Kpt Lehmann shows his ignorance!
One word: relax!
You'll only become older much faster, when spending your time being angry all the time!
Above you admitted to have done just that yourself!
That's really a cheap remark! Easy to say: ask for permission, when the standpoint is allready taken to deny the request!

Yes, you do! And some other guys too! You don't want a "GWX for casual players"!

Break those yourself, and expect others to do the same!
No-one cares except some modders! Sorry to tell you the truth!
Nor I or anyone else supporting me seek profit!
Again you admit to have included mods without obtaining the permission first, but with proper credit!
I know this was not adressed to be, but it's just so funny that you accuse others to use previous differences in the new approach, when you do exactly the same yourself always!
Interesting, when comparing to a quote from another GWX team member, made in ubi forum ->
It just shows how selfish this GWX team is!
This team would like to use other people's mods, but refuse the use of their mods inside other mod packs! So JScones, does this apply to me only or everyone in general?
So if someone else does a mod, which is similar to yours or anybody elses work, it's okay, given that it's based on historical facts!?
Interesting!
So you admit also that if you would get no answer, you would use it anyway also! Hmmm.... interesting!
Point taken, we discuss the way how to act! Okay: asking + crediting vs. no asking + crediting vs. no asking + no crediting
You want: asking + crediting, period! Right?
Then you have to accept an incoming request for the use of your mods in other mods as well, if you use other modders mods in your mods! Anything else would be ridiculous! Especially, when you have allready admitted to intend using mods yourself with credits only if no answer given!
Glass houses... that's a good one! LOL!
Honestly, I think this is well spoken! But selfproclaimed internet-forum policemen will get no respect! Courtesy will come out of itself, not when ordered!
At least, I do not call you a parasite just because you ripped of material from Bavaria Studios and put it in your mod!
What a piece of b*llsh*t! Again Kpt Lehmann fills you all with lies! GWX-TA is not GWX in its entirety! It is "a tweak package to go on top of GWX using JGSME..." So again Kpt Lehmann shows his ignorance! For the second time in this thread! He hasn't even bothered to try out GWX-TA to see the difference for himself. So much for his argumentation! Which is inferior!
Yada, yada, yada... I haven't even published this so-called join-mod of WAC and GWX! And not even here at subsim! But false rumours spread in the water, when the talking maschine of Kpt. Lehmann and his lieutenants spread their accusations. Just visit ubi forum, look for my GWX-TA thread and look at page 5, where I proclaim the join-mod. Which sentence did I finish the announcement with? = "Mostly thought as a joke!" I guess some people just don't have sence of humour! In the first place, I didn't even know, whether it was possible to do or would demand too much work. Maybe, I would need help from others to do it! I had not even started the discussion, before this future mod AND GWX-TA was attacked! And I must say, GWX-TA has been falsely attacked! Kpt. Lehmann (and others) continue to claim GWX-TA to be GWX in disguise, when it's NOT! Continously, it's suggested to make it a tweak mod for GWX, only problem for the accusers is that it allready is, and as such hasn't been investigated properly! And this is WHY, I honestly NOW consider to try do this join-mod! So thank yourself for your continous false attacks!!
Since donots76 isn't around anymore, at least not with his past alias name!, to defend himself, I think it's a cheap attack!
Well, you are an egoist!
Let me quote you now:

And Carotio is still thinking why everyone is so mad at him... sorry little sod he is. :shifty:

LOL, the way Carotio bends words to suit himself is laughable and obvious.

Tis a shame... it looks like he's taken days to build that post.

Plain and simple, Carotio has leeched on, and intends to depend on, the success of others for whatever he throws out there and hopes will "stick."

Regarding GWX TA not including the entirety of the GW or GWX mod... well its about time.

I agree with this :roll: Hopefully all of this will not scare away those just getting into modding, be a shame if it did.

RDP

Escuse me but if I go on your site and look for TA the 2nd sentince is this.

Whan you see "standalone" it usaly means that you dont need the origanal program to install it. So I can understand why Lehmann(and the rest of the GWX community) thinks that. But if you look farther down the page you see this.

Now Im confused. is it a standalone mod, or a addon to GWX? If its just a addon I sugest you change your page to remove or edit the sentince quoted above.

Well, since you also bends the words to your liking that's make two of us! :huh:

Since your initial post was made less than one day ago, I couldn't have made the reply over several days, so what a cr*p reply!

GWX depends on the music made by artists to be succesfull, and some mods created "out of the house" too!

About time? What do you mean? Do you now say, you think, I should make that hypothetical super-mod? Well, IF I do, I did say IF, then it would not be the entire GWX. I would leave out your damage model as one example!

By stand-alone mod, I mean nor GWX-TA1.0, nor GWX-TA1.1, nor GWX-TA1.2 will be necessary anymore, since I have removed some files (TGAs)

GWX-TA is an add on mod for GWX, which also is quite obvious, when you look at the installation instructions, so I don't get it, why some accuse me first, before asking for an explanation first!

This entire thread is about asking! You want me to ask! But some don't ask me first! Some just accuse me of several things first! So I did the WU thing to be very provocative! Nobody just read the last sentence in my ubi post!
So much for reading skills!

I'd like to bring back the original subject, leaving aside who did what in which ocasion. There is a point raised by Kpt. Lehman that is worth trying to agree here: What to do if a request or permission to use/include/modify a mod is forwarded to the author, and no answer comes?

Can we agree in an etiquette for that case? Since many people do mods and then vanish in the cyberspace, I think it is something of upmost importance, for starters.:hmm: