Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Coward!:rotfl:

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

One of my favourite songs is In The End by Linkin Park.

I was listening to it last night on patrol over my grammaphone, and I couldn't help but think how apt it was in describing the U-boat war.

I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end... it doesn't even matter
I had to fall to lose it all, but in the end... it doesn't even matter.

How true is that, the Uboats all tried so hard and fought so fiercely making big successes yet, in the end, it was all for nothing, and they lost everything as a result of their effort.

I put my trust in you, pushed as far as I could go.

And they did, they put their trust in their masters and pushed on and on despite mounting losses, and wow, listening to that song and watching the Uboat sail on the surface I realised, the real German Submariners were some of the bravest bastards in world war 2. Enemy or not, they are deserving of some recognition for all they fought for.

Originally Posted by Kaleu. Jochen Mohr

i would prefer calling the allies:shifty: .
ALL WHO PLAYS SH3 IS IN THE SHOES OF A GERMAN U-BOAT COMMANDER :damn:.
and all soldiers are bastards. but the most unfair event in history (and a perfect example to all who says nazi's were bad) is the nuke on hiroshima.:down:
NOW THATS UNFAIR!!!

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I dont know... being familiar with the invasion plans and the literally millions upon millions of soldiers and women and children that would have died in Operation Downfall i think dropping the bombs was the most humaine way of ending agressions against Japan given the situation - of course hind sight is 20/20 though.

ever heard the term "all is fair in love and war"?

The atomic bomb was fair. think the Japanese wouldnt have used it against anyone if they had developed it? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

please.

I admire the tact and restraint the allies used in their plans for the Atomic Bomb. Not only did the allies attempt to select cities that housed a large military population but Some world leaders at the time would have dropped it on several if not all japanese cities essentially destroying the entire japanese race. (or most of it).

Post ww2 The United States of America had more to do with the rebuilding and restructuring of Japan than any other nation on earth - period.

the pearl harbour attacks...

unfair - no - perfectly fair to surprise attack someone especially if your attack plans are meant to disable the enemy's means of fighting you before the fight even starts

bastardly - yes

costly in human life in the grand scheme of ww2? absolutely not.

the dropping of the atomic bombs...

unfair - no - in fact it saved about 100 times as many lives as it took

bastardly - yes

costly in human life in the grand scheme of ww2? Nope.

i would hardly go so far as to call everyone who playes SH3 as a German U-boat commander a "bastard" and i would never call a soldier a "bastard".

first off, in my VIDEO GAME collection i... and many others here... have played as American, British, Russian and German soldiers in "CALL OF DUTY", we have played cowboys and indians in the wild west with "GUN", we have saved the world time and time again from aliens in games like "HALF LIFE", we have terrorized the skies of europe in "COMBAT FLIGHT SIMULATOR" and "IL2" - these are all just GAMES to many of us... occasionally a window to history... occasionally a few hours of mindless entertainment.

and to call a soldier a "bastard" is just the worst thing i have heard - it is because of soldiers that you are able to sit on your arse and talk nasty about soldiers and play games in the first place.

Ebert and Roeper give you.... :down: :down:

Originally Posted by Kaleun Cook

I don't want to offend anyone, just posting my opinion.

Brave etc. or not - these guys would help nazi germany to kill thousands of british, american and whatsoever nation's sailors for the "Endsieg". Of course young men were forced to serve in the military and maybe had little chance not to do it (although there are countless examples how people found their way around it) but still every sunken ship, every shot plane, every dead enemy soldier supported a system that created the industrial genocide.

Therefor I find any chorus of praise in this context very difficult if not indefensible.

Originally Posted by P_Funk

And so the opera continues. :roll:

;)

Originally Posted by Spytrx

So on that same note you must condemn the Russians for killing more of their own soldiers than the war did (besides from spreading suffering for many years after the war ended), the Americans for dropping two atomic bombs on civilians (the first one deliberately to see what effects it has), the British for their colonization policies (and subsequent slaughter of the Zulu's and many other nations, besides being the true inventors of the concentration camps) and deliberate bombing of civilian targets out of spite in the end, the Japanese for their cruelty to their PoW's -- shall I go on? Your bias view is very narrow minded (sorry, but there is a lack of tacktful words in my vocabulary) - go and learn about the war first before making such a statement (particularly what lead to the war in the first place). The German soldier never really had a choice in the matter. You might want to read up on the three o'clock call from the GeStaPo, indoctrination, Propaganda, and brain washing (particularly of youngsters in school). Of interest might also be to look into the life of a person under a tyrannic system (hell, America thinks they live in a democracy yet look what is happening there - and do all the Americans that voted for the government want to be associated with what is happening right now (which is nothing compared to the late 30's, but worth bearing in mind) and/or is that all down to blind patriotism (hmm, isn't that just another word for / description of how to see Germans in the third Reich)?

I find it very disturbing that people always assume that the little person on the street knew what was going on in the concentration camps mostly located in the East (not on German soil), took part in the decision making at the top level, had a say (or even a vote) on any matter that went on in the third Reich, and that every German was a Nazi! Quite the opposite was true.

If you can't seperate the honour that went on on the battlefield by the normal soldier (not the SS or other special units) and appreciate the feats that were achieved by a group of incredible brave men then you really shouldn't comment at all (sorry, but that is my opinion). Even the Allied military leaders had nicer things to say about their opponents... Never ever forget that history is written by the victor and that there is more to it than just a simple 'they were evil and that is what they did and so we went in and wiped the floor with their faces' - horrendous things went on on all sides and in all camps that are not talked about...

Originally Posted by P_Funk

I like listening to Live Jimi Hendrix too. Line up one of his catastrophic end-of-song distortion feedback loops with the sinking of a ship and you got yourself some mighty powerful visuals.:D

Its like a sorta Vietnam war movie kinda feeling, but with much less of that malaise of senseless brutal human defeatism.:roll: