Hi... Nightmare

Together with Pcelt we are developing a series of tweaks.

The problem of "unsinkable" ships was solved and works fine almost into our installation.

It is not a released mod yet... but have name in case it works fine, and is good to share it.

It is called ...."Die Slowly Mod"

Work is in progress, we consider the ships damage model is fine now, we are working on sub now. It is a "nightmare" .

There are many Stages....

Stage 4 :

Basically the manin changes are :
All flooding times for ships and subs increased.
Torpedo power-up. To make the big merchants and tankers more easy.
Big battleshps, battleships, and Heavy Cruisers more strong, to not make them so easy due to the torpedoes power-up. Yamato is not too weak now do not save torpedoes with it now.
Many sub tweaks. Increased hitpoints, 1/3 and ahead slow adjusted to silent running and max range speed, snorkel depth changed to works as radar depth with CCIP and Ducimus keyboard.
Sub files includes inceased battery life and crush depths. At our pleasure, not realted with the yet released mods but so similar, info may be from same fonts.
Depth charges reduced in lethal radius.
Zones tweaked, with changes on ships, subs and planes. With some effects added, not sure if all them works.

Many optional adds, wich you decide if use or not, but related with survival probability. (radar fix, visibility fix and more)




Stage 5 :

Same as Stage 4, but ships flooding times increased, wich cause many strange ways to sink.




Stage 6 :

Same as Stage 5, but we start here to make the sub more strong with the objective to diminuish the "domino" damage effect.
Depth charges same as before but with reduced power.



You can download any of the 3 version to test, all 3 will solve the non sinkable big cargo and tankers.

Two torps are enough now for large merchant and the problematic OLNippon=Large Modern Tanker....

Download any of the 3 versions from here : (remeber it is a non finished job and need to much more test, specially with UPC sub files...but works fine with ships)

Do Not forget to back-up all your original files

http://hosted.filefront.com/Redwine/

The Tanker That Would Not Die:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...eenShot001.jpg
6 torps and still making 7 knots...

This is the reason I use 2x torpedo mod.

Yes... the torps was the first we tweaked... but then, the Battleships, the Yamato, the Heavy Cruiser become too weak and easy to sink... we increased their resistence.

Now the Nippon Large Modern Tanker, takes only two "most common" torpedoes only, MK 14 or 23 power equivalent.

One reason tankers are so hard to sink is an error in the zones file. An area hit with ammo does damage x4 = so you quad your damage when you hit an ammo zone. The problem - when they wrote the zone file - they listed fuel as damage x 0.5 = meaning any hit on a fuel bunker (or fuel TANK) only does 1/2 damage! This is why a tanker that should take 4 or 5 torps is taking 8-10 or more! Same with shell damage. :damn:

The options are to correct the error (setting it to damage x1.5 or 2.5?) or to mod the torpedos. In all honesty - the torps are a bit weak regardless - but the zones fix would also resolve the decreased shell damage.

Either way - hope this helps explain a bit of why you see what you see.

Good hunting!
Captain Haplo

Sorry Captain... i cant found that setting.

Are you talking about Multiplier factor... ?

I dont remember bad it affects the critical probability... do you say it multiplies the power of the weapon hiting the compartement ?

Redwine,

;************************************************* ******
[Global Params]
CargoExplosionRange=25.0; The range of cargo explosion
AmmoExplosion=#Splinter_explosion
AmmoForceMultiplyer=4.0; The explosion of location filled with this cargo type is multiplied by this factor
FuelExplosion=#oil_explosion
FuelForceMultiplyer=0.5; The explosion of location filled with this cargo type is multiplied by this factor
Penetration Threshold=0.2
Armor Level Factor=4
;************************************************* ******

Thats the original text of the zones.cfg under data - at the very end of the file. Note this is a force multiplier - which cuts the damage in half - blast it! Cant be right. I can understand where fuel would have less force than ammo - but not cutting the force in half compared to pure AIR! This is why tankers are so hard to kill!

Change fuelforcemultipyer to 1.5 or 2.5 (2.5 seems more realistic personally) - and you start getting 2 - 3 torp kills. 1.5 makes it 3-4, on occasion 5.

For fun - or for testing - set the ammo force multiplier higher (say 12) - and then edit the zone cargo to be ammo on any (or all) ships. One torp blows anything to the moon! Even a couple of shells do the job. Watch the fireworks! I admit - it was a fun test for me to run!

Hope this helps. Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

However though it's only the fumes from the oil that ignites when a flash from a torpedo impact reaches it. Most cases it doesn't depending upon how full the oil tanks are. So it is quite possible for the tanker to only sink after a prolonged time.

I've found tankers to be one of the more "ignitable" targets, and do not require many fishes. However, I wonder if the game simulates full/empty tankers. A tanker carrying highly flammable oil should be a bit more vulnerable to a HE torpedo impact than an empty one that basically just carries air (after hose-down of the tanks to get rid of highly volatile fumes).

Does fire actually do damage or is it an indication of damage? I had an old tanker aflame from stem to stern for about 5 hours after four torps and it just sat there and burned.

4 torps seems excessive, on the other hand it was not unknown for ships to burn for hours before sinking...or not even sinking.

I see now, i readed those lines, but how they talk about explosion, i was thinking the FuelForceMultiplyer=0.5 was refering to the effect, in example, slinter explosion 20, 30 , 40...

Then there is two way to solve the unsinkable tankers, this and the torpedo power up we followed.

Any way we tested the problematic Nippon oiler Large Modern tanker into a mission filled with freight, not ammo or fuel.

The matter is, there are some big cargo ships with the same problem.... this way can solve the tankes, but not the cargo ships.

Any way a combination of both parameters may be so good.

A very interesting parameter is the CargoExplosionRange=25.0, we can rise it up to 400, so if an ammo explosion happens, your sub will take damage if you are so near... :p

Many thanks for the info.... :up:


Interesting comment, may be Cap Haplo can calrify with your test...

It is refering to the ship fuel ? or to the cargo fuel ? :hmm:

To hit the ship fuel has a low probability, but hit cargo fuel in a tanker is a high probability.

Small and medium tankers are not the problem, the problem are the big tankers as Nipon oiler Large Modern tanker and Large cargo ships.

Into the mission editor, you have many choices in the cargo load up for the cargo ships and tankers.

Freight, Fuel and ammo.

Our test with the Nipon oiler large modern tanker was with it filled with freight to discard any ammo or fuel explosion power add.

Sure if you fill it with ammo or oil, it was modellated, in example by the line posted by Capt Haplo.... :up:


Sadly not, fire do not increase damage.... it is a legacy from SH III.
Ship can stay days in flames and nothing happens.


Agree, 4 torps may be too much, even when thr fuel floating as a cork, the oilers was old design, its hull was very thinny, a big hole makes the oil goes out...
In real life they are very hard to sink, many stay hour and days in flames.
But i think so we need a balance between game play and reality here.

With the mod above, the large tankers and cargo ships sinks with max two torps.

If any body want to test... Stage 4, Stage 5, or Stage 6....



Download the "Die Slowly" mod here :

http://hosted.filefront.com/Redwine



Download the Big Ships (freight cargo filled) Test Mission here :

http://hosted.filefront.com/Redwine/1947775



Please, dont let to add any discover about this issue and comment. :up::up::up:

Well - to clarify - any of the zones in the zones.cfg file can be filled with "cargo". Cargo is fuel, ammo - or none. None is air - or general freight - neither of which are going to have any "set" effect on an explosion. Fuel - as written - dampens the explosion - when it should increase its intensity. Ammo - obviously increases the damage.

Since each zone can have its own cargo - the game doesnt differentiate between a "Ship fuel" in a fuel bunker or tank - or a storage tank. It simply sees a "zone" with "cargo".

What may be needed is to see if we can create a "cargo" type that lets us tweak how the large freighters work as well. I dont see anything that looks hard coded - if I get time this weekend I may play with it. If that doesnt work, we may need to just adjust the cargo in a couple of zones on the large freighters to get the same effect.

This is looking more like a mod thread - maybe it needs to be moved? Either way - at least now we see WHY. Once thats known - changing it usually isnt too hard - unless its hard coded!

Either way - Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

Well... AmmoForceMultiplyer= and FuelForceMultiplyer= works fine....

I set now both to =1, to not make the ships to easy to sink.

:up::up::up:

with fuel set to 1 instead of .5 - are you seeing any improvement in taking out a large nippon? Can you give us some feedback on what your seeing? I set fuel to 1.5 and I am seeing them go down with 4-5 which is a fair "historical average".

Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

Sincerelly Captan Haplo... we (Pcelt and me) have not more any problems killing the Nipon Oiler NOL Large Modern Tanker.

2 torps when it is filled with freight, and 1 or 2, when it is filled with ammo or fuel.
Of course it depend on wich kind of torp you use, i am talking about mk 14 and 23 282kg explosives.

If you use MK 10 or 18, you will need more torps, and if you use MK 16 you will need less.

If you want to change it, only need to increase hitpoints into ship ,zon file, we are using stock... HP.



I think so we are using diferent files, if i set 1.5 i need less torps.

We reach to a very interesting gameplay settings.

Large ships are not more invincible, battleship are not more weak.
Many extrange ways to sink, and beautiful FX effects.

Plus we tweaked the sub.

The "domino effect" is more controlable now.

With our settings, after take some hard damage, you was (in most of the cases) able to dive to peri depth with no problems, if you are near to a enemy DD.

Plus, you can perform (in most cases) a crash dive if you are near to an enemy plane.

To stop the crash dive is reccomended, but if you cant, in the most cases you can reach the 40m and survive.

In most of the situatiuon i tested, the domino effect happens under 50m.

Of course if you take lot of severe damage, you still not safe even at peridepth.

Not a solution, domino effect remains unpredictable, but is the only we have, almost yet.

The better way is to remember the "indamage depth", and never overpass it any more in the remain time of the mission, in example, if you was able to surviva severe damage at 40m, and repair it, controls the flood.

Never, ever more, overpass this depth... at wich you was taked damage and survive.

If you want to check the last verison of the tweaks Pcelt and me tested...



Download "Die Slowly Mod Stage 7" from here....

http://hosted.filefront.com/Redwine



Not so good, not so perfect, not a great job, but improves the gameplay fixing or making more soft some problems into the game...

Good if you feedback some comment.... :up:

:up::up::up: